Loading .44 Russian

[PJ Hardtack]

A set of RCBS .44 Russian/.44 Spl. "Cowboy Dies" arrived yesterday and I have 100 cut down .44 Spl. cases, so I loaded them up.

I loaded 50 with 3.5 Bulls Eye and the other 50 with 5 grs Unique. We'll see what the gun likes - when it arrives.

It was obvious when crimping the .430 200 gr RNFP's that the case walls were thicker, the resistance being a little stiffer than when crimping .44 Spl. However, there was no case bulging.

Looking forward to shooting them ...,.

[Will Ketchum]

What will you be shooting them in?  How much do you plan on shooting the Russian?

I found it was easier just to buy the brass from Starline.  Then again at one time I was loading and shooting for 4 different guns in 44 Russian.

Will Ketchum

[PJ Hardtack]

The rds will be shot in a Taylor's #3 Russian model.

Thanks to the 'gamers' that like to shoot wimp loads in their .44's, I'm on the 'wait list' for 500 Star*Line cases.

Another solution would have been to have the gun rechambered to .44 Spl., but then it wouldn't be a "Russian" #3 .... ;>)

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[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks to the 'gamers' that like to shoot wimp loads in their .44's, I'm on the 'wait list' for 500 Star*Line cases.

Who you calling a gamer? Some of us actually have revolvers chambered for 44 Russian that were made before 44 Special was ever invented.

[FriscoCounty]

Who you calling a gamer? Some of us actually have revolvers chambered for 44 Russian that were made before 44 Special was ever invented.

According to Goex a 200gr .44 Russian with a case full of FFFg fired from a pistol has a muzzle velocity of about 680 fps.  Even if you waffle about that and use a muzzle velocity of 600, that yields a CAS power factor of 120.  That is twice the CAS minimum of 60. 

Now, it may not match the power factor of a case load of BP for a .44-40 or a .45 Colt, but it still tain't no gamer load.

[PJ Hardtack]

Don't yer knickers in a knot ....

I'm calling the guys I met at a recent IPSC event "gamers". Revolvers shooters that had their S&W revolver cylinders mod'd to take half moon and full moon clips to accept .45 Schofield and .44 Russian brass. It's easier to make 'major' this way and still have a very controllable round. They bought up all the locally available brass.

If your trying to make me believe that the 'gamers' in CAS haven't adopted these cases for the same reason, your gonna have to convince me.
Ain't that right, FriscoCounty? I mean, why buck the recoil of a 44-40 or .45 Colt case full of BP if'n ya don't hafta .... ;>)

Who you calling a gamer? Some of us actually have revolvers chambered for 44 Russian that were made before 44 Special was ever invented.

[FriscoCounty]

Actually, I like the buck and boom of .44-40.  Got a 73 and a pair of peacemakers in .44 WCF.  .44-40 was my first SASS cartridge.

Then I fell in love with the 1872 open top.  So now I mainly shoot  an 1866 and open tops in .44 Russian.  I shoot BP, so there is still plenty of boom and smoke.  I suppose I could shoot them in .44 Special, but .44 Russian seemed more appropriate, even though the case volume on the .44 Special is actually closer to that of the .44 RF Henry.

I recently built a pair of 1851 conversions - Pietta 1851s with Kirst gated converters.  I load 171 gr heeled bullets over a full case of FFFg - about 18gr.  Never had a problem with any knock down.  Based on published ballistic info, I suspect it has a muzzle velocity of about 700fps, giving a power factor of almost 120. 

Point being, if you load BP, you have to work hard to get a gamer load.  It takes filler or really light bullets.

[PJ Hardtack]

Agreed on all points, and thanks for not going off half cocked, gettin' all hissy fit on me for my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments.

When I first got into CAS, I tried BP in my Ruger Vaqueros. I was loading 25 grs FFg in .44 Spl. brass and was accused of being a 'gamer' because I could have been shooting more in a .44 mag case. This somewhat set me aback as the whiner was shooting wimp smokeless in his .45's and 20 ga shotgun!

Like you, I'm in love with my 44-40's - pistols and rifles. They really perk with both smokeless and BP, BP being the most fun. Shot some today with 6 grs Red Dot out of my Remington conversions and the bark was enough to make folks with foam ear plugs cup their hands over their ears. It REALLY has a sharp report!

[FriscoCounty]

I'm calling the guys I met at a recent IPSC event "gamers". Revolvers shooters that had their S&W revolver cylinders mod'd to take half moon and full moon clips to accept .45 Schofield and .44 Russian brass. It's easier to make 'major' this way and still have a very controllable round. They bought up all the locally available brass.

If your trying to make me believe that the 'gamers' in CAS haven't adopted these cases for the same reason, your gonna have to convince me.
Ain't that right, FriscoCounty? I mean, why buck the recoil of a 44-40 or .45 Colt case full of BP if'n ya don't hafta .... ;>)

OK, .45 Schofield and .44 Russian in moon clips?  Really?  What, do they think it gives them an edge in ejection and reloading time? 

As for CAS, I always associated .38 Special and light smokeless rounds with gaming.     

In CAS, I view the .45 Schofield is more a historically accurate round than a gamer round.  Although, the M1877 version would be more 'accurate' in the 1873 Colt.  The next closest  to being a 'gamer' round is the .45 Cowboy Special - which is a .45 Colt trimmed to .45 ACP length.  Although, its smaller case reduces BP costs and also it can be reloaded in .45 ACP dies. 

[PJ Hardtack]

There will always be people looking for the edge in any way, including loads. If they put as much effort into practice with standard loads and guns, they'd be better off.

My first experience with 'gamers' was several years ago at a match in Idaho where a guy was shooting .32 mag Rugers. We thought that he had a squib with the first shot, but the free standing gopher actually went down - barely!
The gopher targets were spaced on level ground out to about 10-15 yds and he hit several that either turned or failed to tip over. He lodged a protest! This was before there was a power factor in the rules, and the .38 Spl. was just beginning to become the darling of the gamers.

The MD came to the stage with a .45 Colt loaded with 180 gr bullets shot from a 4-3/4" barrel gun and he put all the far gopher targets down. Protest denied. The shooter was so miffed that he refused to work the stages and we just ignored him for the rest of the match. He should have been DQ'd under the "Spirit of the Game" clause, but we enjoyed watching him embarrass himself with his 'pop gun'.

[pony express]

Actually, I think if you load a .44 Russian to original ballistics, doesn't that qualify you for Warthog status?

1. Caliber beginning with a "4".

2. Loaded to original 19th century levels.

[PJ Hardtack]

"Warthog"? New one on me, but I like it!

What's that in Russian?

[FriscoCounty]

"Warthog"? New one on me, but I like it!

What's that in Russian?

бородавочник

[Driftwood Johnson]

Well, I guess you can call me a gamer. I only put 1.3CC of FFg Schuetzen into my 44 Russians, topped with a 200 grain Mav-Dutchman bullet. 1.3CC of FFg Schuetzen is somewhere around 19.5 grains according to the table that I keep in my loading notebook. I could stuff in a little bit more, but my 44 Russian guns are over 100 years old and I don't see any point to stressing the old steel (and iron). Funny thing was, the other day we were shooting at falling plates and my gamer 44 Russian loads knocked them down just fine. When I took my earplugs out for a second I winced from the report when a shooter was shooting 38s. I mentioned to a cowboy next to me that the 38s were really loud. He gave me a funny look and said they were nothing compare to my loads.

**************

I usually decide what guns I am going to be shooting at a match by how much ammo I have on hand for any caliber. The last couple of matches were 44 Russian matches because that is what I had the most of.

When I shoot 45 Colts it is 2.2CC (around 33.3 grains) of Schuetzen under a 250 grain Big Lube bullet. It don't get any more Wart Hog than that. Same with my 44-40 rifle rounds. 2.2CC of Schuetzen and th 200 grain Mav-Dutchman bullet.

[PJ Hardtack]

Frisco - Is that fer real?

Driftwood, peace, brother! I'm on yer side. My "gamer" remarks were aimed at those that use short cases NOT for authenticity, but to gain an alleged advantage over those that load in full sized cases.

In July, me and several others from my club shot "Frontiersman" in a ten stage match with .44's - rifle and pistol. Possee members told us that every time we stepped to the line, heads turned to see who was making all the noise! This weekend, we'll be doin' it again at another ten stage event.

No one was particularly interested in watching the pop-gun "gamers" as they chased each other stage after stage. And they seemed to be the ones with most gun problems as well. Our stock cap-guns and un-mod'd rifles did just fine.

Gotta love the "gamers" for puttin' up with all that aggravation!

бородавочник

[pony express]

"Warthog"? New one on me, but I like it!

What's that in Russian?

I guess the term doesn't get as much use anymore, I think it was bigger on the Open Range website. They even had(have??) a separate board for it.