Practical accuracy with 4 3/4" barrel.

[Michael Bear]

Hello Pards

Once again, there is an opportunity to purchase a sixshooter and once again I need to gather some info.
These topics have been rolled over and over, but I haven't asked them yet, lol!

I have a chance to get a sweet looking and handling Cimarron Model P and Frontier.
The thing is, they both gun the "gunfighter" barrels. Both in .45Colt.
I have owned and shot 5.5" in this caliber and I liked the accuracy and handling but it is kind of uncomfortable to carry every day due to its length and while being around 5'7" those sixshooters are a bit tough to conceal.
I suspect there is a more perceived recoil and muzzle raise, am I right on that? Is it uncomfortable or decent?
I'm not recoil shy, and not that bad of the shot, but not a Hickok45 either.
Now as far as accuracy goes... how accurate are these things? I'm talking plinking and target shooting. No CAS.
How far are you guys shooting? Are you only shooting at steel? Paper targets? Cans?
I know that with practice the longer ranges can be reachable. Right load and skill, yes yes.
I read different opinions as to opting for this shortest length in CAS due to fast draw. And it sounds like many cowboys switch back to either 5.5" or 7.5" unless they are in fast draw.
I would appreciate any info or opinions that you may have.

Thank You kindly,

Michael Bear

[Pettifogger]

Going from a 5 1/2" to a 7 1/2" is a lot of difference and the sight radius is noticeable.  There is only 3/4" difference between a 5 1/2" and a 4 3/4".  That makes very little difference.  Accuracy has NOTHING to do with barrel length.  A one inch barrel can be as "accurate" as a 12 inch barrel.  The difference is sight radius.  The longer the sight radius the less critical the sight alignment.

[Jefro]

Howdy Michael, the most popular barrel length for SASS is 5 1/5" with 4 3/4" next. Most all CFDA shooters use the shorter barrel, however we do see some 5 1/2". For SASS we shoot steel targets at about 7 yards, some closer, and some out a little bit more. They are plenty accurate, and with the right powder and bullet easy enough to handle. The 45 Colt can be down loaded even more with the Cowboy 45 Special brass, it's the same size as 45 ACP but made for the 45 Colt. We use them, and we use the same 4 3/4 45s for both SASS and CFDA. For plinking or target the 5.5 will obviously be more accurate, niether one makes a good carry gun.
  I give the same advice to all new CAS shooters..........before you spend one dime on any guns or gear start going to as many local matches as you can find. Shoot all the different guns to see what you like, try before you buy. Folks are more than willing to let you try their gear. Give the Match Director a call, usually they can have you a set of irons to shoot in a match, also they may have (or require) a new shooter clinic. The first good piece of equipment you need for CAS is good leather, we always have guns and holsters to loan but not always the right size belt. Good Luck


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

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[Bugscuffle]

At the ranges that CAS is shot I doubt that it is going to make any difference at all.

[Michael Bear]

Woah! Love this forum! You can ask so many dumb questions and get a smart answer. Thanks a bunch for the replies.
I'm not planning CAS but do enjoy cowboy guns. And I do carry a 5.5" 45LC as conceal piece even though is in the cowboy holster. My dealer loves when I come to his store like that. He points the finger and tell his customers about the only guy in CT he knows who carry SAA as a conceal weapon.
Anyway... I found nice single action (Cim Frontier-posted few topics on that lately) in .357mag. Reason for this caliber is, I can't spend that much on ammo. Luckily my wife love the looks of the new revolver in the house so she wasn't complaining this time.
I am just asking for target sessions at the range. I want to learn how to shoot with this lenght up to 25yards. Jeezz! Hickok45 shoots it at 80yards gong! So it looks like the barrel is capable of this.
Next sixgun is 4.75 in .45LC. I love them big chambers.
They just look right.
Thanks guys

[petrinal]

if you want to test the accuracy according to international standards (ie, competition) you should test it at 25 meters, which is  the standard International  distance for all pistol competitions, excluding Free pistol and Donald Manson in MLAIC, which is 50 meters.

 testing a gun´s accuracy  at 7 yards is just wasting time (air pistols are shot at 10 meters in competition) and testing at 15 yards, may fool you, for many reasons:

you wont really see the difference between an average and an accurate gun, too short of a distance. At 25 meters you will be able to see the difference more clearly, as at 15 yards more or less all good guns shoot the same, but at 25 meters an average gun will open far more in groups. You will  notice also more clearly the difference between a good sight, ligths, a good trigger, over travel, etc...as 25 meters is not "a forgiving distance", like 15 or 12 yards is.

the target size, at 15 yards IS TWICE AS BIG as the target size at 25 meters...in other words..taking your gun to 25 meters and get accuracy is TWICE AS HARD at shooting at 15 yards.

at 7 yards the target is ridicously big, and anyone can hit a can or steel target as such distances, thought not everybody can do it at the speed of light.

one hand held is more recommended for testing accuracy for two reasons:

you will be more accurate, as your arm is extended,  and it is more comfortable, and it is one one hand making mistakes, not two..and you will use only one eye.

a good SAA should be able to hold groups, with selected loads or brands, in the 2" circle, with only  some fliers. If you get that level of accuracy, you can compete seriously...if you get less than 2", you have a racing machine.

if you are going to shoot mainly in bullseye, I would stay away from very soft actions, that slow the hammer fall, in the best Cas style. Bullseye shooters dont like and need soft actions, for accuracy, but what they need is a quick hammer fall, with a good trigger job. Thats why Colt, very rightly, stills makes his actions the old way, with stiff hammer springs...for a quick hammer fall that will give you best accuracy with less mistakes.

[Pettifogger]

If this thing is being carried for "concealed" carry, the average gun fight is about ten (10) feet.  If the target is at 25 meters, you should be running away.

[petrinal]

then it makes no sense talking about  accuracy  in a 4, 75" inches revolver for such distances.

at 10 feet, even a 2" revolver is accurate...even at 12 yards you can get very reasonable accuracy from a 2" revovler, but that gun will fail miserably at 25 meters.

in a defensive situation, you may  not even use your sights, ..it depends on the situation.

in this part of the world attacks happen at extremly short distances (and many times with knives) and while you are walking in the street, not driving..., and unlike what Jeffy and some gurus taught,  in most cases (we are talking about civil self defense that may apply or not to police defense) extending arms, adopting weaver, and "allways use your sights", was not possible.

For that matter, using an IPSC target seems  more adequate....and who cares if at 7 yards your gun groups more or less? any italian revolver will print a ragged hole at such a short distance... ever cheap investment casting philippine revovlers will group like racing machines at such short distance...but take them  to a competition and the COLT, RUGER and SW revolvers will  proof why their barrels are better.

[Cliff Fendley]

At the ranges that CAS is shot I doubt that it is going to make any difference at all.

You've never been to one of our shoots.

[Bugscuffle]

You've never been to one of our shoots.

Wrong!!!! I am a frequent atendee at the shoots of a local SASS club.

[pistol1911]

Do you participate or just watch?

[Cliff Fendley]

Wrong!!!! I am a frequent atendee at the shoots of a local SASS club.

I mean one of OUR shoots, it aint no normal SASS ranges. You need to use the sights at our shoots.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have been watching this thread for a bit.  Personally, I haven't noticed any practical difference in the performance of 4 3/4" and 5 1/2" barrels. The gunfighter is easier to carry during other duties, like ranching or farming, and I suppose there is a theoretical advantage to that 3/4" extra length of the artillery length.  Get what feels right for you and dontwuuryabahtit.

Competition may be a horse of a different hue, but not in my experience.  There was a time when I was younger and had the time to shoot about 5,000 rounds of .22 a year, when I did really well.  Of course that was also when the hotshots couldn't make it to a couple of shoots.  I am not a speed demon

All the choices of revolvers are capable of winning.  And there isn't a target that can't be missed.  PRACTICE A LOT,  and those who say they don't see the front sight are probably fibbing themselves. Just that the process has become an unconscious part of the drill.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I thought of this thread when I spotted an article on "COMBAT FOCUS SHOOTING' in the 2013 buyers guide of The Complete book of Auto pistols.

I googled and found a book report here, which explains itself;

http://www.firearmsforum.com/firearms/article/3459

I still feel that getting even the briefest glimpse of the front sight is needed to avoid those unexplained misses!

[Shotgun Franklin]

I use 5 1/2" barrels because it feels better in my hand. I'm sure a longer barrel will shoot better at longer ranges especially with a good steady rest. For practical carry a shorter barrel is handier and easier to tote. I have carried a gun for 36 years including a SAA every often.

[Galloway]

I wouldnt worry about the guns mechanical accuracy as much as I would the poi. Im on my 4th uberti clone now that shoots low left. My 5.5s and 7.5s have all been fine for some reason. Good luck

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 I got into this CAS thing about a year ago. I'm not so much a "gamer" as I am a shooter and I like pistols that are practical. As such, I bought a pair of .44 Specials; a 4 3/4" and a 5 1/2"...well actually the 4 3/4" was a 44/40, but I bought and fitted a 44 Special cylinder to it.

  I live in the country and have the opportunity to carry a handgun almost daily so I figured the 5 1/2" would be best because of the slightly longer sight radius, slightly higher velocity, etc. I was wrong.

 The 4 3/4" has become my constant companion and I see no real difference in the accuracy of it and the 5 1/2". I shoot them at 50 and 100 yds. and both of them do really well:













  So, take yer pick!

  CHT

[PJ Hardtack]

At our recent annual club CAS event, my wife was one of TWO shooters to hit an 80 yd bonus pistol target. She asked me where to hold and I told her at the top of his hat - "Bang!" .... "Clang!"

Her gun - one of her Uberti 'Stallion' .38 Spl.'s with 4-3/4" barrel .... nuff said ..... ;>)

Load was a 130 gr RNFP and 3.5 Red Dot.

[GunClick Rick]

25 feet at a pop bottle cap..

[yahoody]

Longer sight radius makes the longer guns easier to hit with.  But as others have shown 100 yards and beyond isn't hard with 4 3/4" gun and reasonable sized targets.  Metal is one thing, flesh another altogether.

15 yards, shooting bullet hole sized (45s are easy compared to a 32/20 holes btw) targets is fun and very telling of what your gun (and you) are capable of as well.