Olde Eynsford Goex's New Powder

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Ranch13
I tested the new powder and I reported my findings hope that is good enough . But if it's not then come to Kentucky and   we can test this powder . Now do you know where I'm coming from . I used  2 1873 rifles , that way we would have a clean bore . These are the 2 Rifles I tested the Swiss with and it shot GREAT . As far as the size of the groups they were bad , so I decided to wait and see if the next ammo would have the .429 bullets . This was the starting point for this powder . They were loaded with 32 grains , which it needs at least 36 grains IF YOU CAN GET THAT MUCH POWDER in THE CASE ? Now I didn't load the ammo so I will take Jerry's word for it . Now I am trying real hard not to criticize the new powder , so maybe it works great in  large calibers but as for the 44wcf it aint looking real good .

[Ranch 13]

I got to run a small velocity sampling today. This stuff is going to like some compression, and the loads that were compressed had really good numbers after the initial shot. The less compression the wider the spread.
 Fouling was easily hydrated, and quick to clean up.
Another fella has been doing some actual target shooting with the stuff, and with no load developement in 3 different rifles has been averaging groups under 2 inches at 135 yds.
 The 2f will easily hurl a 530 gr bullet from a 28 in barreled 45-70 at an average of 1220 fps, and may do better than that with some load developement.
 This stuff is lighter per volume than KIK and any of the Goex powders ranging from regular goex to express to cartridge.
If a person is interested in trying it I would not hesitate to get ahold of some and give it a whirl, I think it may have some real potential.

[w44wcf]

I finally had a chance to shoot Old E 2F in the .44-40.

Cases: R-P
Primer: CCI 300
bullet: 427098 (Accurate 43-210B Fairshake design) 210 grs.
lube: SPG

With the measure set to "40" volume here is the average velocity as compared to  Swiss
Old E 2F - 1,348 f.p.s.
Swiss 2f - 1,379 f.p.s.

By volume, we can see that Swiss is a wee bit more enegetic BUT by weight, Old E 2F produces a bit more velocity.
For all intensent purposes, the powders are pretty equal......at least in the .44-40.  
 
40 grs. by weight Old E 2F - 1,401 f.p.s.
40 grs. by weight Swiss 2F - 1,379 f.p.s.

I fired 25 rounds at 50 yards and am happy to report that there was no "foul out" and good accuracy maintained throughout.
There was light fouling in the barrel    ....similar to my experience with Swiss in the .44-40.  

I am impressed.  I will load 50 rounds for further evaluation..............

w44wcf    
 





 
 

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[Ranch 13]

  Pretty neat stuff ain't it?
 Looking forwards to your further testing.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Makes me "itchy" to get my big bores out to the range and try it out.   

[Rowdy Fulcher]

w44wcf
Thanks for the info , I am glad to see you had good results . Hope the olde E is what  were hoping for . Your report sounds Great . Thanks again .

[Bryan Austin]

Keeping an eye on this one myself. 

[w44wcf]

Howdy
I tried the 2f over the Chronograph and it came in at  1180 1149   1166 fps
next was the 3f it came in at 1250 -1242 -1243 fps
The groups were larger than I expected , but the ammo was loaded with .428 and Uberti really needs at least .429 or .430
I shot about 20 rounds before the fouling got bad , when I ran a patch down the bore the first 6 inches was heavy fouling .

Rowdy,
Yesterday I loaded 40 cartridges with Olde Eynsford, 30 with 2F and 10 with 3F.  For a comparison, this time I used the 32 gr. charge weight that Jerry had used in the cartridges that he had sent you.

Bullet was the 427098 (43-210B Fairshake design) .428" diameter (rifle has a .428" groove diameter)
Alloy this time was 7.5 BHN / 212 grs    Lube - SPG

When cartridges are loaded commercially in a production mode, chances are that the powder is not settled which takes a bit more time and thus, adds to the cost.

So......I decided to test the powders two different ways, not settled and settled just to see if there were any differences.

Results:
32.0 / FFG / not settled (.20" compression) - 1,257 average velocity - 50 yards = 2"
32.0 / FFG / settled ..... (.12" compression) - 1,272 average velocity - 50 yards = 1 5/8"

32.0 / FFFG / not settled (.18" compression) - 1,321 average velocity - 50 yards =  2 1/2"
32.0 / FFFG / settled ......(.10" compression) - 1,317 average velocity - 50 yards =  1 7/8"

As we can see, initial groups were a bit better with the settled charge. I was using iron sights and the lighting conditions were not the greatest and with my older eyes that was about the best I could do.  Next time out, the rifle will be wearing a scope to get the true accuracy of the cartridges.  

Once again, this time after 40 shots the accuracy was maintained and there was minimal fouling in the barrel......similar to Swiss in the same rifle. Goex certainly has a WINNER with this powder.

My goal is to = the original 1,300 f.p.s. of the original .44-40 b.p. cartridge so I will increase the charge weight of the FFG powder for the next tests.

Velocities are definitely higher than what you reported so I wonder if Powder Inc. accidentally sent you ammunition loaded with a different powder(?)....especially since the fouling you experienced is much greater.(?)

w44wcf
 

 

[Bryan Austin]

W44WCF, in either Swiss or Old E do you prefer FFF or FF?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

W44wcf
That's good results . I need to have a DO OVER ? The 32 grains of 3f is exactly where I want to be as far as FPS .

[w44wcf]

Jack,
I prefer FFG in Swiss with the standard 427098 bullet. That is mainly because with a load of Swiss FFFG that produces 1,300 f.p.s., there is a bit of airspace unless I seat the bullet a deeper than normal.

With Olde Enysford, both work pretty equally, with 35 grs of FFG or 32 grs of FFFG replicating the original cartridge ballistics of 1,300 f.p.s.

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Yesterday I had the opportunity to try Olde Enysford fueled cartridges at 100 yards. Bullet was the 427098 (Accurate 43-210B Fairshake version). Lube was SPG.

I remounted the scope on the rifle to help with my aging eyes.
32 / Olde Enysford 3F / CCI 300 primer produced the best 10 shot group (2.62").

35 / Olde Enysford 2F / CCI 300 primer - produced a  2.87"  10 shot group.

The conditions could have been a bit better since it was a bit windy with 10-15 mph winds.  On a calm day I would expect either recipe to produce the same result. 

Once again, light fouling and no foul out after multiple rounds had been fired. 

w44wcf

[Ranch 13]

That's not to bad at all. A little tinkering and that could possibly even get better.

[Bryan Austin]

Thanks w44wcf

I have about 75 43-210B bullets left that Fairshake cast for me. The weights very from 207gr to 212gr with whatever lube he uses...I forget    I cast my own 427098s with just wheel weights but I forget the weight. I have yet to learn how to mix tin and get a bnh scale.

I did use the 43-210B, over on the Marlin forum, and shot 40gr and 38gr by weight compressed, with my model 1898. RP brass and WLP primers. Velocity was 1,365 and 1,349 to include the 15fps for the distance of the chronograph. My shooting skills are not great and I was only shooting at 25yards. Groups where a good 2" but I feel the rifle shoots better than I do. Open sights, bench rest but no support. I hope to be able to venture out further this weekend.

I am also going to tone down the powder to about 36gr Swiss 2F and try for 1,300fps

[Blackpowder Burn]

I finally had a chance to get to the range and do some chronograph work today.  I didn't have enough time to shoot for accuracy, have to save that for another day.

Marlin 336 Cowboy 38-55, DD Big Lube 250 grain bullet with SPG
Loaded with equal volumes of each powder.  Actual weight as shown below:
43 grains Goex Express FFFg = 1350 ft/sec, 129 ES
42 grains Swiss FFFg = 1321 ft/sec, 29 ES
39.8 grains Olde Enysford FFFg = 1281 ft/sec, 64 ES

Ruger Old Army, 7-1/2" bbl
Charge weights are nominal by volume measurement

Round Ball
30 grains Goex FFFg = 849 ft/sec, ES 61
30 grains Olde Eynsford = 948 ft/sec, ES 54

35 grains Goex FFFg = 868 ft/sec, ES 152
35 grains Olde Eynsford FFFg = 1023 ft/sec, ES 41

DD/PUK/ROAII Bullet (220 grains)
30 grains Goex FFFg = 807 ft/sec, ES 74
30 grains Olde Eynsford FFFg = 883 ft/sec, ES 54

My results parallel those of w44wcf in that equal volumes of Olde E are less energetic than Swiss, but equal weights would probably be comparable.  The thing I found interesting was that Goex Express gave higher velocities than either Swiss or Olde E on an equal volume basis.    This seems to fly in the face of everything I've seen and heard previously.  Unfortunately, I have no more Express to run any more tests with.

Also, considering that Olde E is only slight more expensive than regular Goex ($14.90 vs. $16.00 delivered - or 7% more), it would appear that compared to using regular Goex for normal CAS matches, you can back down charges 25% to 30% and achieve the same velocity.  Note above that 30 grains of Olde E pushes a round ball 80 ft/sec faster than 35 grains of regular Goex. I'll back down more on my next outing - to 25 grains (instead of 35). I'll also throttle back the DD/PUK bullet - it's a handful.  Thus, Olde E is significantly more economical.

All-in-all a very interesting day.  I'm looking forward to more tinkering with Olde E.

[Mean Bob Mean]

Thank you for the update and information!

[Tater Pickens]

who is supplying this Olde Eynsford Powder?

Thanks,

Tater Pickens

[Ranch 13]

who is supplying this Olde Eynsford Powder?

Thanks,

Tater Pickens

 Most Goex distributors should have some by now, unless they're sold out.
Try  Powder Inc or Grafs.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Just wondering if anyone has been using old E . Hows does it perform . I guess I need to pick up a few pounds to try .

[Ranch 13]

Most folks that are using it are really pleased with it. Some diehard Swiss users are in the process of making the switch to Eynsford.
A couple of matches have had winners or high places taken with Eysnford.