New to forum, New to Uberti Russian :) Have a few questions

[45Russian]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum but this appears to be THE authority on top breaks. After a long search I just acquired a new Uberti/Cimarron Russian in 45 Colt, traded 2 Cimarron 7.5" Old Model SAAs for it. I used to own a Schofield replica a while back but it was a crude specimen imported by Stoeger. The Schofield was very loose at the latch (despite tightening) and very inaccurate. It would also bind up after 50 rounds or so of smokeless.

I always wanted a Russian since I'm from the former USSR, but live in the West (CO) and love old west firearms. That gun is like a perfect mix

Naturally I have some reservations about the Russian because of my experience with the Schofield, but so far so good. I took it to the range yesterday and put 100 rounds of Ultramax cowboy 250 grain ammo through it. It shot POA and was surprisingly accurate both 1 and too handed. I did find that I had to almost make the front sight disappear in my sight picture to get POA hits at the short indoor range. i wonder if it's sighted in for longer distances. All in all it was awesome shooting the Russian next to all of the tacti-cool plastic guns

Hopefully there are some Russian experts that can help answer my questions:

1. I know every gun is different, but what kind of longevity can I expect out of this gun? I will be only using cowboy loads (all lead, 250gr 750fps)

2. Any safety concerns with this design, seems like it's built with multiple safety mechanisms to prevent the gun from opening during live fire

3. Any tips on shooting the Russian accurately? I hope to be able to get good enough to run it at local silhouette matches. The matches are for lever guns, but we are allowed to shoot single action revolvers as well. (Winning scores are usually around 10/40)

Thanks in advance for any help

[Abominable Bill]

Ok... this thread has baked long enough... I'll give it a try

1) With cowboy loads and proper care, you should be ok for a good length of time with the Russian

2) I feel that they have been designed to be safe enough. Carry 5 loads with an empty under the hammer.

3)Your mileage will vary on that one. Get one shoot it, see how it shoots and adjust to work for you.

[St. George]

Just read through the 'back pages' on this forum, and you'll soon see that pretty much every question you're ever going to have on your Uberti has been asked and answered - from care and cleaning to ammunition.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

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[Flint]

As for firing the revolver opening the latch, there is the boss on the latch and notch in the hammer which helps lock the barrel down with the hammer "home".  The Schofield also does this by running the hammer under its latch like a Remington Rolling Block.

S&W developed the systems when they made the revolvers for that reason.  However, in efforts to lighten and tune the action, some shooters have had the mainspring thinned too much and if the mainspring is too light, the gun can shoot open, as the hammer  is not pressing hard enough on the overlap, and can bounce and disconnect the overlap in the latch and hammer.

[45Russian]

Theoretically in the event of the latch opening on firing is there risk of injury to the shooter? There are plenty of reports of ASM Schofield guns opening up, but it seems like more of a nuisance than a safety concern.

When inspecting and cleaning what should one look for to ensure that everything is functioning well and does not present a risk of opening on detonation?

Thanks for all the informative responses.

[Leverluver]

Howdy 45Russian

I also have a Uberti but in the real deal 44 Russian  .  And I also have to about bury the front sight in that tiny rear sight to hit at mid (20-30yds) range.  I haven't found at what range the front and rear come together but guess it is at or beyond 100 yds.  Pretty tough sights on eyes well into the 7th decade but its still fun.    

[45Russian]

What kind of a load do you use for long range shooting? I know most people on here reload, but I noticed that commercially available 44 russian loads are actually hotter than similar 45 colt loads.

How has your experience been with the Russian so far? How reliable has it been?

[Leverluver]

No particular long range load.  Just shoot the standard load at longer ranges.  In WY, there is always a "white rock out yonder" that offers the challenge.  I shoot 200gr RNFP by Despardo Bullets behind a middle of the road load of Titegroup.  I haven't chronoed that one yet but suspect ~750fps and that is all the velocity I need and all the pressure I want in that pistol.  Yes, I have also noticed that some 44R loads, factory and handload, accept higher pressures than some other CAS type cartridges such as the 44 Colt that I also shoot.  I have no intention of pushing the 44R up past 10K pressure.

One annoying thing I have noticed is that the pistol has an greater propensity to "spit".  Exactly what it is spitting (lead or powder), I don't know.  The gap is tight and the chambers align with the barrel very well.  I have been told (by smith below and others) that the model does spit more than other revolvers.  I really don't know why that would be but flat base bullets appear to do it a little less than bevel base bullets. 

I had my pistol tuned by a really great smith (sorry don't remember his name) that is no longer taking in work although he does still sell some items for CAS folks.  At that time he was considered the top smith on S&W breaktops and by what was returned to me, I'd say his reputation was well justified.  The original springs came from a 52 Buick but the action is now smooth as glass and has a crisp, no creep, no over travel, 3 pound trigger.

There is some slight looseness in the action and more of it comes from the hinge pin rather than the locking latch.  I have purchased a new hinge pin hoping it is a little larger.  If it isn't, I at least have a model from which I can make my own hinge pin that is a couple ten thousandths under the pin hole size.  Maybe some looseness is normal for the Uberti but I remember some late 19th century pocket breaktop Smiths my dad had when I was a kid and they locked up like bank vaults.  I may not get there but that is what I am shooting for.  Until I get a tighter pin installed, I am refraning from shooting and possibly loosening the action any more.  Just waitng for the WY wind to die down so I can get outside and shoot again.  That will motivate me to finish all the projects which the Russian is but one.

[Doug.38PR]

Interesting thread.  A Russian man, a Russian gun out west.  I understand Tzarist Russia was an even bigger market for the Schofield than the U.S. Army.
As far as accuracy goes, I nit the nail on the head with my 7 inch Uberti Schofield better than with my Ruger New Vaquero 4 inch.  

I have a little question about the Russian version that the OP has:  I've handled them in gunstores they are nice but what is the purpose of that spur that comes out from under the trigger guard?



go to 22:10   Very interesting.  (particularly the Gand Duke Alexis buffalo hunting with a .44 Russian)

[Thumper]

My only problem with the S&W design, was that after a few cylinders there would be play in the hinge screw between the frame and barrel and I would have to tighten it up again. I would suggest an small set screw (that interferes with the profile of the hinge screw), to eliminate that problem. Some originals have that extra screw on them, I don't know if it was a factory modification or gunsmith done.

[St. George]

    
Re: Russian triggerguard spur

« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 07:53:51 am »

   Some think it was to be used as a sort of 'safety' and a place to rest the trigger finger, while others think it was merely an additional place to rest a finger for greater stability.

There's even the thought that it was designed as a 'Parry Guard' - to ensure that the Cossack could retain his fingers when parrying a saber.

It's definitely a 'European' design thought - but the real reason is long lost to the Mists of Time.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Wild_Willie]

I have a little question about the Russian version that the OP has:  I've handled them in gunstores they are nice but what is the purpose of that spur that comes out from under the trigger guard?
 

  I have also heard/read somewhere about the triggerguard spur being a hook for placing the firearm into the belt line, with no holster.

  I cannot attest to that method.

~Will

[Driftwood Johnson]

My only problem with the S&W design, was that after a few cylinders there would be play in the hinge screw between the frame and barrel and I would have to tighten it up again. I would suggest an small set screw (that interferes with the profile of the hinge screw), to eliminate that problem. Some originals have that extra screw on them, I don't know if it was a factory modification or gunsmith done.

Howdy

It's called a bug screw. No, it is not a gunsmith extra, it was a design feature. It is there to prevent the larger screw from backing out.





I have never seen this feature on a 2nd or 3rd model Russian, only on the 1st model, the one that looked just like the American model.





Regarding the spur under the trigger guard, I can tell you it does not help to keep the gun in place if thrust into a belt.  I'm sure the Czar issued holsters to his men, there would have been no reason to try to hang the gun from a belt with no holster. The gun alone will keep itself in place, and the spur is too small to try to hang the gun with it all by itself. The gun will fall if you try. It also does not help as an extra finger grip, it is much simpler and more comfortable to just grasp the gun by the grip, no different than any other revolver. Clearly, no one really knows why the spur was there. I suspect it is just decoration.

I had my pistol tuned by a really great smith (sorry don't remember his name) that is no longer taking in work although he does still sell some items for CAS folks.  At that time he was considered the top smith on S&W breaktops and by what was returned to me, I'd say his reputation was well justified.  The original springs came from a 52 Buick but the action is now smooth as glass and has a crisp, no creep, no over travel, 3 pound trigger.

Probably Happy Trails, now retired.

[Leverluver]

Happy Trails is correct.  He did 4 guns of mine which were probably some of the very last he worked on.  An absolute gentleman to do business with.  His services are missed.

[Blair]

Driftwood Johnson,

You Sir, have some very nice examples of original S&W top brake #3's in your collection!
Mine is very similar in variation, but not with the quality of original finish as you have shown in this forum.
I thank you very much for your efforts and your posting. They are GREAT!
  Blair

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks Blair

I do have three Number Threes, but two of the photos in this post are not mine. The closeup of the bug screw is a photo I took at an auction a couple of years ago. It was of a first Model Russian that was going up for auction. I took the photo, but I do not own the gun. The photo of the other 1st model is one I took of the net. I do own the 2nd model Russian, the one on the red background.