saa action question

[nomad.]

Hi All,

great board......

I have a SAA question and I figured you guys would know better than most, I was looking a a few new Cimarrons at a LGS and I noticed a huge difference in the trigger and hammer feel. I tried a model "P" the action was smooth and heavy, next was "man with no name", the action was smoother and much lighter, last was an "Evil Roy" that appeared even smoother and lighter, the first two were new, the "Evil Roy" was used.
My question i - Is the difference due to better springs or do these models have different or modified action parts? the Cimarron website doesn't mention any difference that I could find.
I would appreciate any input, I'll be picking something up in the next couple of weeks.

[Pettifogger]

Mostly springs, but on some models there has been some tuning done.  That's part of the higher price on the "tuned" models.

[sack peterson]

Add to that:

SAA parts are kinda all the same to the naked eye.  They don’t have much variation in geometry.

Springs of various quality and behavior are available, some in factory packages.

An action job is to go through the revolver and see that all springs and sears engage properly to their full potential.  This would include stoning all channels in the frame to remove burrs and slicken things up.  For a plain jane six gun, they only give this stuff a passing look at the factory.  I love Uberti’s, but in years prior I consistently found NIB ones kind of gritty.  As a Uberti vendor, Cimarron always saw to it that their guns were a cut above from this.

Evil Roy is a competition gun in which ostensibly an action job and spring package has been done as a factory new package.  I never handled one but understand them to be fabulous.

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[nomad.]

Thanks for the responses

........ I'm trying to decide weather to buy a basic and have it tuned exactly how I want it, or buy the upgrade and start at that point. If the upgraded new guns have superior guts I'll go that way, if it's just a matter of working the standard parts to superior operation or if a smith is going to replace those parts anyway it wouldn't be worth it. I'm not a competitive shooter (yet) but all of my other style guns (Kimbers's, SIG's, S&W, Etc.) work well and smooth............. I like light triggers, but not extreme hair triggers.

[Pettifogger]

If you are going to have it tuned buying an "upgrade" is a complete waste of money.  The parts in all Ubertis are the same.  Some may have had some minor tuning or polishing, but none of the out of the box factory guns will ever be as well done as a tune-up by a master single action smith.   "Smooth," "light" and "hair" are basically not meaningful terms as they are entirely subjective.  What some find "smooth" others find they feel like they are filled with sand.  I know people that think a three pound trigger is a "hair" trigger since they are not competitive shooters and not use to short crisp triggers.  That being said, for most people the difference between a bone stock Uberti and a Smoke Wagon or Evil Roy is very noticeable and most of their owners love them.  If you can handle them see how they feel to you.  If you are in a SASS club most people will gladly let you handle or shoot their guns to try them out.

[Coffinmaker]

I've been tuning Single Actions for CAS for the last 15 years.  There has been NO difference in build quality between importers.  They are ALL the same internally.  Some are well assembeled and some are not.  Over the last 5 years quality has vastly improved.
I'm with Pettifogger.  If your planning to have it gone thru by a SA smith, a premium gun is a waste of money.  Taylor's, Cimarron, EMF etc. all offer nice guns out of the box.  You pay a bit more for them.  Standard guns will respond well to tuning.

Coffinmaker

[Slowhand Bob]

I am a duffer when it comes to shooting or understanding gunsmithing but do use some of the guns you mention.  I currently have three pairs of the ERs and found all six guns to be well improved (smoother and lighter) over my former base Model P guns and all had actions that were very similar from gun to gun.  The grips and sights were also improved, in case you have not noticed these improvements.  I have heard that the well known smith who started out doing the action jobs is no longer doing them but I did see where he stated that he had done the work to Cimmarons specs and not necessarily his own (specifically as concerned the use of a leather washer under the hammer spring).  I have  had guns that were supposedly tuned extremely light for well known shooters and did not like them, just plain dangerous fer a duffer like myself!  If you like 2 1/2 lbs or less triggers on cowboy action guns then you sure dawnt need my thoughts on this!  My most often used pair has been the ones in .45 and one has started showing an increasing problem with that trigger pull, it is getting lighter and not holding as firmly as I would like at full cock (though not yet falling with jolts).  Guessing that an angle has started to wear wrong??  Nothing hear but impressions so take them fer what they are worth, my 2 cents!         

[Pettifogger]

I am a duffer when it comes to shooting or understanding gunsmithing but do use some of the guns you mention.  I currently have three pairs of the ERs and found all six guns to be well improved (smoother and lighter) over my former base Model P guns and all had actions that were very similar from gun to gun.  The grips and sights were also improved, in case you have not noticed these improvements.  I have heard that the well known smith who started out doing the action jobs is no longer doing them but I did see where he stated that he had done the work to Cimmarons specs and not necessarily his own (specifically as concerned the use of a leather washer under the hammer spring).  I have  had guns that were supposedly tuned extremely light for well known shooters and did not like them, just plain dangerous fer a duffer like myself!  If you like 2 1/2 lbs or less triggers on cowboy action guns then you sure dawnt need my thoughts on this!  My most often used pair has been the ones in .45 and one has started showing an increasing problem with that trigger pull, it is getting lighter and not holding as firmly as I would like at full cock (though not yet falling with jolts).  Guessing that an angle has started to wear wrong??  Nothing hear but impressions so take them fer what they are worth, my 2 cents!         

The sear surfaces have most likely worn.  (Either the hammer or trigger or possibly both.)  You need to get this looked at because if the surfaces are wearing they will continue to get worse.

[nomad.]

Thanks for all the info.......I've decided to go ahead and get a base model from Cimarron ( I considered a Vaquero for a minute but I'll get one of those later, figure I better get an old style single action before some legislator decides it's too dangerous for me.. ;-) ....) Do you guys have any input on the choice of Pietta or Uberti manufacture, both are available as OEM from Cimarron.

Also is there any useful difference other than cylinder Pin removal between old frame style and the pre war style frame.

all of your opinions and insight have been very helpful.............

[Pettifogger]

My preference is the Pietta GWII series.  They are one of if not the most accurate clone and are very well made.

[Abilene]

Of the Cimarrons, the Uberti Model P will have the most authentic markings.  The Pietta will be smoother and lighter springs out of the box.  And the standard model P will have authentic 1st Gen sights, which means tapered front and v-notch rear, while the Pietta has squared front and rear, more like the Evil Roy (but not as wide rear notch).

[sack peterson]

You have a no-lose proposition there.  They are both good.

I would also go with the Pietta.  Their CCH finish has been more colorful (Uberti may have caught up recently though).  They don’t have a hammer block safety.  Actions are consistently smooth as new.

The Uberti’s appearance is probably a touch more authentic.

[nomad.]

So.... i went ahead and ordered the Cimarron Frontier (Pietta) in a 5-1/2" I called Cimarron & spoke with "Chris" to see if the Artillery version was any different from the standard 5.5 inch and he confirmed that it was  just in the markings on the grip, He also confirmed all of your thoughts about the Pietta being superior right now. He reported that they have shown freakish reliability in all of the units that have shipped so far( maybe the factory action jobs that are performed catch flaws) and the finish is also better.

next will be a 4-3/4 , but I'll shoot this one for a while first to develop my preferences.... I'll let you know

thanks again guys

 

[nomad.]

Just got it out of "jail" today,




thanks again for all the helpful input,

the action is lighter than all the Uberti's i tried, probably in the springs,

My first impression is very good, I'm  happy with the choice.

[Abilene]

Looks good!  Let us know how she shoots.

[Graveyard Jack]

I handled a couple of the Evil Roy models and they are definitely tuned, not just new springs. They are very smooth and slick with a good trigger. When I say "good", take that to mean that I am entirely accustomed to 2lb triggers on my sixguns. If I were looking for a new replica in the chamberings offered, I would strongly suggest a tuned factory model. Except that I believe they widened the rear sight notch a tad too far.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I personally like the fact Uberti Cimarrons have the roll mark patent dates.

[Bugscuffle]

Nomad - I don't mean this in a disparaging way, but until you have handled and shot and used a few "tuned" six guns, you aren't going to know what you want or what your personal preferencea are. There are trade offs for just about every aspect of "tuning". For instance, you may want a lighter pull on the hammer, but it comes at the expense of having the hammer fall with somewhat less force. If you use heavy primers (requireding a heavy hammer fall to reliably ignite them) You may want to either hold off on the light hammer pull or find some easily ignitable primers. Very light trigger pulls require a strict attention to NOT haveing your finger in the trigger guard when you cock back the hammer. With very light (less than 2 pounds) trigger pulls the hazard is that you either have the hammer not cock all the way or even worse, the gun go off too soon. Any and I mean ANY modifications to the hand, cylander or associated parts WILL affect the timing. Unless you know what you are doing, stay away from these parts. Now I hope that you can see why a "tune job" costs as much as it does and why there are so few that can do it correctly.