Beginning CAS guns

[cowboyjared]

I just recently became interested CAS and have been researching and trying out a lot of different guns. Right now heres what I am thinking for a set up to get started. For pistols I am looking an a Uberti 1851 Navy Conversion or a set of Ruger Vaqueros both with the 4.75 in barrels. For rifles Im think a Winchester Model 1892 Large Loop carbine, 19in barrel, a Uberti 1866 Yellowboy 19 in, or a Cimmaron 1866 Yellowboy, and for shotguns either a Stoeger or Cimarron Coach Gun. I have looked through a lot of websites and handled these  when available. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated and if you have any experience with any of these guns I would like to here what you thought of them.

[Major 2]

Well I'm fond of the conversions,  I've been around awhile and enjoy the conversions as my Main guns.

However, the Rugers are hard to beat at the entry level...

if you go the 92 skip the large loop....just slower.

Uberti is a Cimarron or Taylors, I would recommend the 66 way over the 92.

Lastly, for shotguns either a Stoeger or Cimarron Coach Gun will serve you well
for the coin the Stoeger is the less expensive.

The best advise to go to a shoot or two asked and you will be allowed to try your choices.

[cowboyjared]

So what conversion would you recommend I read several reviews about the Uberti not be able to stand up to regular use. And everyone says Ruger is the best but I prefer the look of the 1851 Navy. Are conversion just as easy to shoot as a standard cartridge revolver?

[Advertising]

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Depends,

If you are trying to pinch pennies and have to buy a rifle, it is my OPINION that the best gun for beginners is the Uberti '73 in the same round as your pistols.

If you already have a Model 66, or have one in your sites really cheap, that may be the best way to go ... but if I had to spend the money, I would look at a Codymetic '73 ... however it is not legal for NCOWS with the short-stroke kit installed ...

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Well I'm fond of the conversions,  I been around awhile and enjoy the conversions as my Main guns.

However, the Rugers are hard to beat at the entry level...

if you go the 92 skip the large loop....just slower.

Uberti is a Cimarron or Taylors, I would reccomend the 66 way over the 92.

Lastly, for shotguns either a Stoeger or Cimarron Coach Gun will serve you well
for the coin the Stoeger is the less expensive.

The best advise to go to a shoot or two asked and you will be allowed to try your choices.

Major2 speaks words of iron. 

Get the Rugers.  They are the best bang for your buck out there:  inexpensive and reliable.

Get an Uberti '66 or '73.  Both will serve you well.   They will cost the same. The '73 is easier to clean.

Get your rifle and revolvers in the same caliber.  This will make your life a whole lot simpler.

Go with the Stoeger.  Will cost you less, easy to gunsmith, and loads of spare parts out there.



Note:  this advice for good starter guns.  There are nicer guns out there, but the $ get $$$.   After you get bored with te Rugers, you'll get he itch for some Conversions, or an nice set of Schofields. 

[buckshot dan]

 i just started shooting cas a few months ago i ended up buying apair of uberti 1873 pistols with 43/4 barrel in 357[ found a pair of consective #pistols on gun broker for 510 plus transfer fees] a new rossi m92 also in357 started with a old fox shotgun but had ign problems on i barrel so i sold it and bought a new baikal double and put some modifyed cocking levers in it so it stays open  i bought the 92 rifle so i could hunt deer with it using hot handloads i'm going to get a 73 rifle soon[with a actionjob and shortstroke kit] its probly one of the fastest and smouthest rifles i've shot  the 92 is very ammo  oal sentsive i load moulton 147 gr bullets to 357 lenght 1.55 so if you get a 92 you probly will need to load your own if iwas going to start over i would have bought a codymatic 73 or the like and i want a couple of colt ssa 2nd models [if i can ever afford them]

[cowboyjared]

Thanks for all the tips got to go handle some of the guns I was looking at. I really like the short Vaqueros they have a nice balance to them. I also got to handle the Uberti 66 and I am not a fan of the hammer being in the sight line but I do see that most of the time the hammer will be cocked while aiming. Is this an issue for anyone else? I still really like the Winchester 92 for some reason and I actually prefer the large loop but as someone said earlier it is slower. But I also had another gun that just came in. The Henry Big Boy in 45 LC but my one concern is you load it up like the 1860 Henry. Ive tried guns with both loading styles and I prefer the side load to the barrel load. Sorry I dont know all the lingo yet on the guns.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Thanks for all the tips got to go handle some of the guns I was looking at. I really like the short Vaqueros they have a nice balance to them. I also got to handle the Uberti 66 and I am not a fan of the hammer being in the sight line but I do see that most of the time the hammer will be cocked while aiming. Is this an issue for anyone else? I still really like the Winchester 92 for some reason and I actually prefer the large loop but as someone said earlier it is slower. But I also had another gun that just came in. The Henry Big Boy in 45 LC but my one concern is you load it up like the 1860 Henry. Ive tried guns with both loading styles and I prefer the side load to the barrel load. Sorry I dont know all the lingo yet on the guns.

Get what feels good in your hand.  You are doing right by handling many different guns.

A few notes:

1) You will only be viewing your 66 sights with the hammer back.  Some folks change out the factory rear sight to a full buckhorn. 
2) The Winchester 92's are a stout design.  It's not very fast and can be picky about the ammo you use (especially over-all cartridge length.)  66 is going to be a faster rifle.
3) Do not buy a Henry Big Boy.  Do a few searches here and you'll find out why.

[cowboyjared]

Man people really dont like that Big Boy

[cowboyjared]

One thing I noticed reading the reviews is that some people dont like the shooters that use the short stroke kits and other modifications to increase speed. Does that stem from people not seeing it as traditional enough (basically saying gunfighters did use this in the Old West). Or is there something else I am missing? Does a beginner need to modify guns to be competitive to some extent or can you go out with stock guns and keep up with most?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

CowboyJared,

I think if you are fast, you are fast. Period.

This coming from a guy who owns a Codymatic '73. I mean, the short stroke kits are neat ... but for the price of a Taylor's (which is where he buys his guns) and a little bit more, I got a gun that has had all the things I would pay extra shipping and FFL fees (which can be large and heartbreaking) done .... so it seemed the best policy to have them done before I got the gun ....

If I had it all to do again, I would again buy a Codymatic and then tell him that I intended to compete in NCOWS and have him leave the stroke alone (other than polishing it up to get all the manufacturing burrs and stuff out ...).

BTW, he has his prices on his website so you can see what the effect of buying a Taylor Codymatic (Uberti) '73 is ... in my opinion, it did not cost that much more to buy the weapon through him, have it worked on and send it to my FFL.

http://www.codyscowboyshop.com/

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I just checked Taylors and Codymatic's websites ... it looks like for a little under a hundred dolllars more you can own a genuine Codymatic ... that is less than the FFL fees for one time sending it to be worked on .... and we haven't even begun to talk about gunsmith fees, postal fees, etc. I rest my case and let someone else speak ...

TTFN

[Major 2]

Skip (WWE) is right....

The tune will support your speed , but nothing will support speed like pratice.

Box stock will perform for you, and a tuned whether it is a Ruger, Uberti or even a Genuine Colt will perform some better.

As to the ....." some people dont like the shooters that use the short stroke kits "
It not the Shooter that not cottened to,   it is the kit.
Each shooter/person has their own ideas & goals.  Some find speed & winning at all cost the most important aspect and the most fun.
And believe the short stroke kit has a mili-second of advantage, added up over the course of the stages it does .
Others (and these are the shooters you'll find in NCOWS ) find that history, accratecy, and persona is the stronger draw.
There is no right or wrong , both style of shooter derives their pleasure from Western Action Shooting.

There is nothing wrong with a spring job and or bit of smoothing make a good box stock whatever even more a pleasure to cycle.
Just as a tune-up to the family sedan benefits the vacation drive .

"Does a beginner need to modify guns to be competitive to some extent or can you go out with stock guns and keep up with most?"
short answer .... IS NO to the first question and yes to the second question

Join the game at the beginning, and see where it takes you.
  
What part of the country are you in ?  
 

[Major 2]

Man people really dont like that Big Boy

It's not a bad gun.... just the wrong tool for "WAS''

You might not use an axe to cut hard wood, when a chainsaw was handy

[cowboyjared]

I am in Eastern Nebraska right now and I am planning on moving to the Western part this fall for school

[Shotgun Franklin]

Here's my standard pre-printed answer.
Go to some local club shoots. Take about 100 rounds of low velocity lead revolver rounds, .38 Spl or .45 Colt and a box of 12 or 20 ga shotgun shells, Dove loads. The Shooters will let you try all kinds of guns, including different makes, shapes, grips and actions. Then you can make an educated guess as to what you want. I suggest you go to 3 matches before you decide. Several people will likely have guns they want to trade or sale. If you're a club member you'll likely get a better deal. Also take an old felt Cowboy Hat and a thick wide belt to hang a holster on. Yep, you can pickup leather gear too.
I'm betting that you can save yourself hundreds of dollars by not buying before you try.

[Major 2]

I am in Eastern Nebraska right now and I am planning on moving to the Western part this fall for school

There is a fine NCOWS Posse in Nebraska
The Blue River Regulators.... And some fine friends  contact  "Yuma Kid"  John Irons  
their next shoot is July 8  range is located 3 miles west & 4 miles north of Valparaiso, NE

http://www.ncows.org/Posses/BRR.htm

[cowboyjared]

Sorry I keep bugging you guys but I actually have sometime off right now so Im taking advantage of it.  Today I finally got to handle one of the 1851 Navy and I did think I could put it on target faster than the Vaquero but long barrel (which I believe can be ordered shorter) and the hammer wasnt as easy to pull back as the Vaquero. The Vaquero on the other hand I really like and I think with some practice I could get it on target. But the cost of Vaqueros is a little high but well worth it according to most people even the used ones at Cabelas are more expensive that an 1851 with the conversion cylinder. Also I compared the 1866 to the Winchester 1892 and I like the overall feel of the 1892 better but yet I do like the authenticity and look of the 66 better the same goes with the Vaquero I like it better but I also want to be more authentic and like the look o the 1851s better

[Sacramento Johnson]

Howdy Cowboyjared!
 
Might I suggest a different approach, given your above comments?  Decide what draws you to cowboy action shooting first.  Is it the competition, or the historical aspect of the 1860-1899 period, or are Hollywood westerns your main influence? Is it a combination of the above or others as well?  If so, figure out which has the greatest pull on you now; rank them.  All these different draws lead to different types of firearms, gunleather, outfits and cost. What a person would chose if competition were their main draw is VERY different from someone interested in historical accuracy, and these would be very different compared to someone enamoured with Hollywood westerns (TV and film).  Tell us where you're coming from and you'll get better tailored suggestions.

When I first started, I was most influenced by Hollywood westerns, but after a few years, being more 1880s period correct became my goal, and my firearms and gear changed and I also began to use blackpowder as well as smokeless.  Eventually an earlier era began to interest me, and I began to get involved with first, cap and ball cartridge conversions, then cap and ball itself.  I also went back and did better Hollywood cowboy outfits based on some specific movies/TV shows. (Competition never was a big draw for me.)

[cowboyjared]

I would say that my first draw is seeing how guys like Wild Bill, Wyatt Earp, got their job done, secondly probably the old westerns, and third the competition. Its something new I want to try and eventually get into the mounted shooting.