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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Longbranch (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Silver Creek Slim, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: Marlin 'MicroGroove' and lead bullets 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Marlin 'MicroGroove' and lead bullets  (Read 3336 times)
PJ Hardtack
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« on: June 22, 2012, 10:13:52 am »


Not sure if this is the right column for this inquiry, but ....

My wife owns a Marlin 39 .22 and a 94 .357. She bought a nice B-92 .44 magnum but says she prefers the smoothness of the Marlin action compared to the '92.
I think she's bonkers, but I'm happy to have a wife that enjoys shooting and knows what she likes .... ;>)

She has tracked down a nice Marlin 94 (owner says from the 1970s) in .44 mag with 20" octagonal barrel and steel nose cap. It has MicroGroove rifling.

My experience with Marlins is minimal, but she shoots her .357 with lead RNFP just fine. Will this .44 Marlin with MicroGroove be OK with lead RNFPs?
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Wolfgang
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 10:22:06 am »

Can't give ya a definite answer.   Might be Ok with very hard cast bullets. 

Someone who has one will no doubt post.


I bought a .45-70 insert to go in one side of a 12ga. double a few years back.  Very shallow rifling.  Couldn't get it to group at all.  Need to get some very hard cast bullets and play with it some more.  Just haven't got around to doing anything with it as there are so many other "toys" to play with . . .  Wink
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 10:37:15 am »

Howdy, Pard,
The MicroGroove rifling should do okay with hard-cast bullets in the BHN 17-22 range...the harder the better. Most commercially cast bullets are in this range of hardness. Also, one needs to use bullets that are groove diameter-to-groove-plus .001". Keeping bullet velocities in the 1000-1200 ft/sec range will also help with accuracy and to reduce any leading problems. The other thing is be sure to thoroughly clean the barrel after shooting jacketed bullets, before shooting cast bullets. And, although the "Darksiders" may disagree, I'd stay away from black powder.
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 06:12:42 pm »

That's pretty well what I got from the net surfing I did on the topic .... hard bullets a few thou over bore size, don't mix and match lead with jacketed.

Wish Marlin would get away from their 1x38" twist, but for .44/200 gr RNFPs, it seems to work.

Years back, I knew a fella what shot BP in his Marlin 1894C .357 carbine with MicroGroove rifling. He shot 21 grs FFFg and a 158 gr bullet, taking the time to put a newspaper wad twist powder and bullet base 'cause he read that he should. I don't think he even used a BP lube.
He shot through multi-stage matches just fine. Go figure ......
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 03:29:19 pm »

Dido's to what Trailrider posted. I have a 22 LR Marlin Mountie that I've had since '69 (paid the high cost of $92 for it), I've shot both jacketed and plain lead bullets through it's micro-groove barrel with no difference in accuracy, but that's shootin a 22 vs a 44. From what I've read, heard, and expierenced, as long as you stick with hard cast bullets and smokeless powder you should be ok. Black powder would foul up the rifling bigtime. You'd problably be ok with softer lead also as long as you kept your velocities below 1000 fps levels, just hav'ta try and see! Do you or your wife plan on shooting 44 Mag or 44 Specials through it and would kind of loads? Reduced loads in either caliber with softer lead (not cap and ball soft) and smokless powder shouldn't cause any leading or fouling problem esp with some of the newer cleaner burning powders. Try 44 Specials in it and see how they cycle. My Marlin 357 Cowboy does just fine with 38 Specials and if you don't plan on shooting/loading full house 44 Mag lds, the 44 Special cases will result in less air space in the cartridge for reduced loads. Good Shootin"" Yers, Crow Choker 
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 11:55:24 am »

OK, in response to a PM sent to me by a Ol' shootin pard, I made a slight error pointed out to me by him.I stated that I have shot both 'jackeded and lead bullets' through my Marlin 39 Mountie. He pointed out that only the Magnum 22 cal bullets are jacketed and the long rilfe one's are copper washed. Ya, aware of that, but I in my Iowa mindset have always called the 'copper washed' 22 cal bullets 'jacketed' and 'the other ones' lead ones. Still do, probably always will, anyway its still a copper coated bullet meeting the bore, spinnin down the barrel on its way to its intended target. How's that for a humbling explanation of my choice of wording Jubal, ya old dog you!!!!! Grin
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 05:15:06 pm »

Just read an article about this in an old Rifle magazine (June 2005?) this morning.  The Author's (Brian Pearce?) experience with the Marlins (having owned and shot over 30 different ones) was that the MicroGroove could and would work with Cast bullets, but it really depended on how good the bore was.  Namely, some of the MicroGroove Barrels had a significant amount of tooling marks and such and a rather abrupt leade angle on the throat that would affect accuracy.  He did have some suggestions on how to make them shoot better including trying various different bullets/charges, fire lapping the bore and re-cutting the leade.  You might try Wolfe publishing's web page and do a search there on the MicroGroove to find the article.
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Modoc

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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2012, 08:50:42 pm »

Ok, I was mistaken.  It was the September 2005 (#221) issue of Rifle Magazine (www.riflemagazine.com). Brian Pearce's "Mostly Long Guns" colum.
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Modoc

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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 06:36:26 pm »

My wife's new Marlin carbine in .44 mag arrived Tuesday. It's back in the box on it's way to the dealer without having fired a shot.
The wood was mismatched (dark forestock, blond butt stock), gallopin' gaposis on the wood to metal fit of the tang, loose screws, rear sight installed way off centre, etc.
Looking down the barrel of the shallow 1x38" Ballard rifling, you wonder how it stabilizes bullets, lead or jacketed.

We just returned from the range with her 'old' .357 Marlin and B-92 Browning .44 and she now appreciates them more than ever.
She can match them with her .38 and .44 pistols as required.

Marlin is going to have to fight to regain their market and reputation.
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 08:30:58 pm »

My marlin 94 with micro groove rifling shoots well with both lead or jacketed bullets. In lead it likes plain wheel weights best. I have a 45-70 marlin with the MG barrel that I'm about to give up on lead bullets in. About the only lead bullets it will shoot are WWM that have been water quenched to harden them more. I have a 94 that has the ballard rifling and it has shot well with any lead bullet Ive tried. Its never had a jacketed bullet down its barrel.

PJ, I'm with your wife in that I like the feel of the Marlin action best. DR
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 08:12:47 pm »

I did an article called "Microgrove Madness in Shotgun News a few years back. Using an older Microgrove .44 mag 1894 Marlin it handles lead bullets just fine as long as volocity was kept under 1200 FPS. It did prefer heavier bullets but even the 200 gr lead bullets shot well enough for cowboy action.

Bugs
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Garand
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 10:45:18 pm »

I've been shooting a Marlin M1894S in .44 mag now since '97 and it is far smoother than my backup which is a 1906 Winchester M92 in .44 mag, or my wife's B-92 in .357 mag or her backup which is a Puma in .357 mag. The Marlin has been a very durable Carbine, only breaking the front and back portions of the firing pin once, after which I replaced it with a 1 piece firing pin, and I have over 13,000+ rds through it.. The Marlin still clover leafs at 50 yds using 240 grain RNFP after all these years, as a matter of fact all these carbines give me more than enough accuracy for the game we play.

All that being said, this weekend I'm shooting my first match complete with my new SASS Vaqueros and EMF (Uberti)'73 in .38 Special. Frankly I'm tired of paying the price for .44 lead & brass. I'll keep the .44 carbines for Wild Bunch, but it's now time to move into the "gamey" world.  Grin Grin Grin Grin
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2012, 10:40:25 am »

Hey - you been talkin' to my wife .... ?

She recently decided to go back to her .357 Marlin carbine and Uberti 'Stallion' .38s. That leaves her Ruger Flat Top .44s for me to play with, (and I just might) and a back up B'92.
We had her shoot the .357 Marlin at 50 and 100 yds with 158 RNFPs and 130 gr RNFPs from the off hand and sitting positions. It showed a definite preference for the 130s. The pistols shoot both well out to 25 yds.

It's a joy to watch her operate the Marlin without a bobble and hit what she's shooting at. She has also racked her cut down '97 and doubles on our can throwers with a new Stoeger 20 ga. SxS and factory shells.
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Lumpy Grits
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 07:14:19 pm »

To the OP, I have used that same Marlin in SASS/CAS for over 10 yrs with only a broken FP and ejector spring.
Sorry to say, but the new Marlin's are pure CRAP. Look for an older one.
LG
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 09:40:36 am »

To the OP, I have used that same Marlin in SASS/CAS for over 10 yrs with only a broken FP and ejector spring.
Sorry to say, but the new Marlin's are pure CRAP. Look for an older one.
LG

I'm courious what year in your humble opinion is the "cut off" for the start of the "crappy" manufacture.....

Should look up ta see when my 1894C {had it for the past 7 years} was made but it DOES have the "safety button" in it which is locked to the fire position with an internal set screw......  Slicked up all the slide'n parts with a very fine stone to be-burr anything and installed a "One Piece" fire'n pin..... Replace the carrier once 'cause of the "Marlin Jam".....

Cool Levered Machine Gun   Cool
Caliber is .357 Mag shoot'n 158gr LRNFP lead just under 1400 fps....  Some lead'n up but nothing that will not scrub out of the M.G. with little effort....   Wink
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Lumpy Grits
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 09:52:19 am »

Marlin went to crap after Remington bought them.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marlin-rant-forum/
You don't need to replace the lifter to fix the "marlin-jam" if you know a good welder and where to weld the lifter.
LG
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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2012, 10:12:01 am »

Marlin went to crap after Remington bought them.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marlin-rant-forum/
You don't need to replace the lifter to fix the "marlin-jam" if you know a good welder and where to weld the lifter.
LG

OK.... that deal was signed in or shortly after January 2008....

Thanks for the new reference source for the Marlins.....

Found all sorts of fix's on that carrier / lifter part caused by the "crisp" lever cam after the fact.....  still have a spare part ON HAND in-case the welder fella isn't sooooooo good that day.....  LOL
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“Lord, make me accurate, my aim true, and my hand faster than those who would do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be "If only I had my gun"; finally Lord, if today is truly the day that You call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass.” ...... Amen


http://www.nationalgunrights.org/
CONTACT YOUR POLITICIANS: http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Longbranch (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Silver Creek Slim, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: Marlin 'MicroGroove' and lead bullets « previous next »
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