Another BP dealer gone...

[Coyote Hunter]

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One of the gun stores here in Kentucky, Aces Guns in Hawesville KY was my major supplier for Goex BP. Up until last October I could still get 2 or 3FG for about $20.00 a pound. He said he didn;t make any money on it, but carried it for the reenactors and for folks like me who like BP over pyrodex. (I load cartridges with it also.) He said after all these years, the inspector came in and did his check of the paperwork. They were one pound off in the figures. He said they hadn't "lost" a pound, but found it in a clerical error where a number was one off. He showed them the mistake, and it in fact was accounted for, there was no slight of hand. He said they had to do three days of paperwork and still pay a fine, so he said they can stuff their permit, he was done with the headaches.

I found another supplier that wants twice as much for a pound can. I guess I didn't know I had it so good and should have bought more stock. I'm down to my last half can of 2F.

Chaulk another up to our grand old gov't.

[hellgate]

I'd try to find out who the SOB inspector's supervisor is and see if the the gun store could explain everything that went on and then ask why do they need this guy as an inspector when he has even less things to inspect and no more revenue from your annual license to the department. In other words, he is no longer needed. Write your congressman (assuming he/she is not a Democrat) and explain the same thing. It might rattle a cage or two.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

In this day of paying for more and larger government (and less taxable income), one notices quotas for everyone from the Highway Patrol (a 'fix-it' ticket now costs $25 [or more] in CA ... ); I would think that inspectors are under tremendous pressure to collect as many fines as possible.

And if the inspector's boss has any govt management skills, he would act horrified that such travesty happened as long as the complainant was in the office, and then would shake the inspector's hand at the fine job he had done collecting fines to keep his department employed .... and of course the shake would be behind closed doors ...

Just my $0.02...

TTFN,

[Cliff Fendley]

The problem they create in a case like this is that now they won't have any revenue because he cancelled his license. The old saying "you can shear a sheep over and over but only skin him once".

Now they will have less revenue and hurt everyone that shopped there also.

[john boy]

Folks, let's face facts.  OSHA & Dept of Transportation have deemed black powder to be an explosive and have set in place regulations to OVER control the powder.  Then insurance companies have increased policy rates because of BP being an explosive.

We are lucky to have as many BP retailers as we do presently.  If any of you remember the 2007 proposed OSHA 'Explosive'  regulation that IMHO the anti's instigated ... we would be out of business shooting black powder and being able to buy primers ... a means to 'kiss your guns goodby'

NRA ILA totally missed this 2007 proposed OSHA regulation.  A grass roots campaign of us shooters was initiated with over 7000 replies to it and intervention support from gun friendly politicians that stopped OSHA in their tracks in Sep 2007.  OSHA hasn't proposed the regulation again since then.  But the more eyes on the Federal Register - the safer we'll be to thwart the proposal again

[Fairshake]

Coyote Hunter, I have lived in the area of Baton Rouge, La. for most of my life and in the fifties we had one large gun store. By the seventies we had 4 and you could purchase black powder from two of them.
The bigger the city became we lost our gun stores because of the huge chain stores coming in and closing the mom and pop stores.
The problem was that the huge chain stores took a stance against the real black powder because of all the false information that was put out by people who had never even fired a single shot of real black powder.
We have grown to over 1 million and still must buy from people like Jerry's, Graf's, Back Creek in Va., Jacks Powder Keg and others.
This is good that we still have a way to buy it but it adds almost $40 or more dollars to each sale.
The days of walk in stores has gone the way of 5 cent phone calls and nickel candy bars.
Those that live near a stocking dealer are very lucky.

[CaptainquickDraw]

I found another supplier that wants twice as much for a pound can. I guess I didn't know I had it so good and should have bought more stock. I'm down to my last half can of 2F.

Well there is still Powder Valley Inc. Order it online, up to 25 pounds at a time, when you buy it in bulk it will bring the price down to around 11 Bucks a pound. But, I don't have  $270 of disposable cash just laying around for 25 Lb, but if I did...
Just sayin.

Cap
 

[Cliff Fendley]

Well there is still Powder Valley Inc. Order it online, up to 25 pounds at a time, when you buy it in bulk it will bring the price down to around 11 Bucks a pound. But, I don't have  $270 of disposable cash just laying around for 25 Lb, but if I did...
Just sayin.

Cap
 

Powder Inc for black powder. Powder Valley for smokeless.

[Drayton Calhoun]

The way I see it is like this, tobacco, taxed to an obscene level...luxury, alcohol taxed to an obscene level...luxury, gasoline taxed to a totally riduculous level...luxury?!?!?!?! No, they know they have a captive financial income on top of income tax, firearms, powder and primers are the same. They figure they will "Stamp out all the 'bad' things and we will have a perfect society". No, they are just soaking up every red cent they can out of us until they eventually kill the goose that laid the golden egg...in a word GREED.

[ZVP]

 I lost my local source for Pyrodex, Caps and Balls ! No real BP around Modesto Ca!
 He has converted over to an all Semi Auto rifle and pistol business! It seems the populatity of Three Gun has overtaken all his intrest in carrying ANY BP supplies.
 Follow the money they say and that's what he did!
 CAS and BP shooting is apparentlly on the downhill slide in these parts, TV too!
  Darn-it, just when I got REALLY into my Single Actions and BP too!
 ZVP

[Buzzard II]

Reminds me of a childs story I heard a long time ago "The Goose that laid the golden egg".  Big government has to feed itself, so we get beat up. Weak Dog in the Whitehouse wants more!  Anyway, I buy in quantity from Back Creek gun shop in Winchester, Va when I'm shooting at the fort.  Mail order from Powder Inc.  Both real nice to deal with!  Both blackpowder dealers.
Bob

[Lumpy Grits]

If you want BP, just call Powder Inc and have it delivered to your home for about $14.90 @ LB.
http://www.powderinc.com/
LG

[fourfingersofdeath]

Our rules for blackpowder make the store store it so far away from smokless that generally the shop aren't big enough, so they don't sell it. I have to drive to Sydney, about 150miles away to buy mine. My BP specialist gunsmith sells it, but he is 92 (not looking good for long term supply, lol). I think one or two of the big shops sell it. I must check it out.

One thing about Australia, you could only ever get one brand at a time. Wano is the only sort available over the past few years.

At the moment the Government, mainly through it's Work Practices branch, Workcover seem to be busting a gut trying to take away all licenses where they can. The carrier that used to cart smokless powder has been unable to operate as their license was revoked. The sales reps were then delivering it to the shops,but that got knocked on the head, so supplies are drying up fast. I don't know where we go from here.

[Judge Lead]

Four Fingers,
try Sodie via the CASS site.
It is WANO, but he is able to get supplies.

Is Martin 92 ?. No wonder we don't hear much from him these days.

Steve

[fourfingersofdeath]

What I don't get off Martin I get off Sodie.

I might be putting Martin's weights up,but I'm sure he told me he was 91 a year or so ago. If he's not,he wouldn't be far off it.

He does nice work, put a set of Pedersoli open sights on my H&R Trapdoor, beautiful job.

[brazosdave]

Gentlemen, there is always the option of making your own b.p...............

[hellgate]

Brazos Dave,

Here is a thread of at least FORTY  PAGES on making your own BP. It's gone on for a long time and keeps getting added to:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder

[Wolfgang]

 Need Black powder ? . . . no problem . . . Powder Inc.    5 lbs to your door easy and quick.  No Problems   

[Fairshake]

I have found that my First supply source is Jack's Powderr Keg in Marksville, La. the owner is a very dear friend. He is a Goex Distributor.
If I need another brand like Swiss or KiK then I use the Powder Inc. source. Graf's is also a good place to deal with as they will ship any amount you need. Just keep in mind that the more you purchase the better that $27.50 Haz-Mat fee goes around. Also remember that the posted prices on the Powder Inc. site include the Haz-Mat charges already.
Get with some other BP shooters and buy a case which really lowers the price. Later David

[Mean Bob Mean]

"Folks, let's face facts.  OSHA & Dept of Transportation have deemed black powder to be an explosive and have set in place regulations to OVER control the powder.  Then insurance companies have increased policy rates because of BP being an explosive."

No, black powder is an explosive, OSHA did not have to do anything for this to be a fact.  It is the ingredient of choice for pipe bombers.  Ask any law enforcement investigator (criminalist, of which I am one). 

I would speculate that any push from the top down to hammer anyone and everyone over any BP discrepancy was originally generated by anti terrorist fears-regardless of who is doing the inspecting.

[Fairshake]

Bob, As a former Army Grunt and Police officer with over 15 years on the streets I will have to disagree with your posting about BP.
It has not been during modern times that BP was given it's tag as an explosive. That happened well over 100 or more years ago and well before any thing by the name of DOT was known to exist.
When the Chinese use it to make firecrackers it was known to be a very low class of explosive, which it still is. If you look at any thing that has been done by any modern "TERRORIST ", the explosive used was by no means Black Powder. Good Ole Farm Fertilizer and Diesel fuel will far out class it. It would take much more BP and more trouble to set up.
The word terrorist did not even appear when BP was classed an explosive.
The mishandling by inexperienced people is what has caused the many problems with BP. When some person that is scared of a product and not given proper training in it's care, bad things happen.
If you take time to study BP you will find that all buildings that were used in it's making were on creeks or rivers and made with boards that had wide gaps in between so that when they exploded, the blast would be less intense. They hired people off the street and put them to work the same day.
I had a posting taken off this forum when I passed along some information that I had about a certain powder company. I was more or less called a liar because I refused to give my source.
Not long after that, this powder company suffered a huge explosion at one of it's factories. I rest my case on that one..
The problem is the class of explosive that BP is put into. It is no more dangerous than the smokeless if handled properly.
I have read on this and other forums where post are made telling people not to keep BP in their homes as it may blow up.
Others say it will rust your guns overnight and make them worthless. All very untrue. DOT is like all other forms of our goverment, it is run by persons who only work like robots and do as they arre told. No one has ever tried to research the lies.
Even the large BP powder companies have little worry about the sporting class of BP shooters. We are only about 2% of the total sales. The Goverment is what keeps the doors open and brings in the huge profits.
We tried to have the laws in Louisiana on BP changed and we asked the State Police to show us one case where it was used in a crime. They failed to do so. Later David 100% BP SHOOTER

[Mean Bob Mean]

It has not been during modern times that BP was given it's tag as an explosive. That happened well over 100 or more years ago and well before any thing by the name of DOT was known to exist.

Thanks Buddy.

Agreed, that was my point (see the tag I responded to), that calling BP an explosivce was not driven by a recent tag by DOT or OSHA, it has always been known to be an explosive.  My point was that law enforcement may well drive any new concerns re hazards and especially inventory discrepancies (missing cans/cases), regardless of who is doing the inspecting (that is to say, law enforcement concerns likely trickle into other department thinking after 911, I'd be happy to get a better understanding of your experience in this area).  It is not, under any circumstances, the only, the best, etc., explosive, and no, not for IDE's overseas or for sophisticated terrorists is it necessarily the preferred item.  My original training (MS in Occupational Safety) led me into training that was heavily influenced by post 911 concerns for hazards, that is why I said "Uh, OSHA is not driving the BP hazard thing."

But for homemade pipe bombs?  Yes, it is one of the ingredients of choice.  It was always the top of the list and first mentioned in my training, but I am happy to defer to your experience as it may differ.  Both you and I, I would wager, would look at any bomb making materials and indicate to those concerned the level of sophistication you were facing, no?  And BP might not necessarily push it to the expert class of bomb makers, but the point re BP is that it is easily accessed.  Would you agree with those comments?

I am not saying that there is a widespread danger from black powder pipe bombs, I am saying that law enforcement has these concerns, as you note re Louisiana.

[wyldwylliam]

There are so many things I don't understand in the whole arena of gun control and all the rest, but here's just one more.

Why is poor old black powder such a whipping boy when stuff like gasoline, propane and all that kinda stuff is available everywhere and to anyone?

[Mean Bob Mean]

There are so many things I don't understand in the whole arena of gun control and all the rest, but here's just one more.

Why is poor old black powder such a whipping boy when stuff like gasoline, propane and all that kinda stuff is available everywhere and to anyone?

Not sure but it is my experience that perception of risk can drive a lot of these issues more than actual data can.  With propane and gasoline, as examples, you can make quite a mess with those, but you can conceal a lethal black powder device probably a little more readily.  The volume of gasoline required to achieve certain goals preclude it as an efficacious explosive.  For example, you can't make an effective small pipe bomb with gasoline.  I have a friend who blew the tips off two fingers and badly damaged his hand's palm with a smallish amount of blackpowder (he made a device about the size of a cigarette lighter). 

So, Black Powder concerns have nothing to do with an insidious plot to regulate firearms, it is simply the perceived and actual risk it might pose.  

Cheers mate.

[wyldwylliam]

Good insight, thanks.