Round barrel 1873 rifle from Uberti ???

[Rowdy Fulcher]

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Howdy
Who would love to have a round barrel rifle . I have been wanting one for a while . If there was enough interest they would probably have a run of these ?  What about it .

[Marshal Deadwood]

Id' be ALL over it !

[wildman1]

Miss B just bought a '73 Uberti round barrel. WM

[Pettifogger]

There was very little interest in round barrel rifles in the 1800's and even though the octagon cost more, there are very few originals with round barrels.  Doubt many would want one now.  Wildman is that a round barrel rifle or carbine?  I have seen only one Uberti round barrel rifle and that was on an old 1866.  I have never seen a round barrel 73.

[wildman1]

Pettifoger it is a carbine 19" barrel, I should have posted that. I didn't realize that they were probably talkin about a rifle till after I posted. It was NIB but had been previously  owned and then ended up in the same gun shop where it started out. She got it at a pretty good price. WM

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
Looks like Winchester is building a Round barrel Rifle .

[Driftwood Johnson]

There was very little interest in round barrel rifles in the 1800's and even though the octagon cost more, there are very few originals with round barrels.  Doubt many would want one now.  Wildman is that a round barrel rifle or carbine?  I have seen only one Uberti round barrel rifle and that was on an old 1866.  I have never seen a round barrel 73.

This one has a round barrel, and I am tickled pink to own it.







According to Georg Madis in The Winchester Handbook, "rifles with 24" round barrels were considered to be standard. Octagon barrels were considered as an extra, but Winchester usually sold the guns with octagon barrels to dealers at the same price as round barrels. Round or octagon barrels were offered in all lengths from fourteen inches to thirty six inches. Odd lengths such as seventeen or nineteen inches were produced on special order, although the special and standard lengths were in two inch increments. Part round-octagon barrels were available, in all lengths but will be rarely seen, especially in special lengths."

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Driftwood
That is a fine looking rifle . Looks like Winchesters new 73 have round barrels . I hope they produce the 44wcf .

[dusty texian]

If they do make a 44wcf,I'll squeeze another in the safe. .......Dusty.

[RickB]

I have a question for the 73 guys on here. I found a Uberti 73 carbine at a local store chambered in 357. It has the round barrel and is brand new. Will this rifle handle .38 special without any work or will the different length cartridge cause problems with feeding?

The price is $950 +. That seems like a good price for this gun.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[Abilene]

I have a question for the 73 guys on here. I found a Uberti 73 carbine at a local store chambered in 357. It has the round barrel and is brand new. Will this rifle handle .38 special without any work or will the different length cartridge cause problems with feeding?

The price is $950 +. That seems like a good price for this gun.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Rick, that rifle should handle .38's just fine as long as you don't try to get super short with the OAL. Most of the fast CAS guys are shooting .38's in their .357 '73's, and while they usually have short-strokes and other race parts in their guns, nothing really needs to be done to let it feed .38's.   Pettifogger has an article that explains how the toggle link carrier works and how to determine the minimum length:
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/togglelink.pdf

That's a great price for a brand new gun.

[RickB]

Thanks for the feedback.

 I'm not inclined to take a beautiful rifle like that and butcher it with a short stroke kit. I'm not a gamer and NCOWS doesn't allow them anyway.  I would keep it original and stock. 

I thought that was a good price. From what I can tell it's the trapper model. I've beenwantig one for a long time.

[wildman1]

Rick if you use the truncated cone bullet in a 38 spl case and crimp in the crimp groove it will work fine in the 73. I load 105g TC's in the 38's and a 125g RNFP in 357's and you can shoot just 38' or 357's or mix em up if you want. WM

[RickB]

Well, here's what I did.

I went to the store and bought some of those A-Zoom snap caps to take to the gun store with me.

First I wanted to make sure that the gun didn't have a short stroke kit in it. It was not modified. Good for me.

I then saw that this was the trapper model which means it's a 9+1 mag. Probably more using .38 special.

The owner of the store let me load a couple of the snap caps in it. I tried to cycle the lever and dang, the round popped out but the next one hung out about 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch and stopped the action from loading the round.

I checked and the a-zoom caps weren't as long as the Ultramax .38 specials I have, but I also have a .38 special with a flat cone type bullet in it that is about 1/16th of an inch shorter than the Ultramax rounds I have.

I was really hoping that this rifle would feed the .38 rounds and not jam up, but that's not the case. Or so it seems.
At the cost of $988.00 for the rifle I just can't afford to take a chance that the .38 ammo I have will work flawlessly in it.

Any suggestions or ideas? I can't afford to buy a gun that I will just have to send for some fixin to make it reliable with the ammo I have.

Such a beautiful rifle too.

[Abilene]

...The owner of the store let me load a couple of the snap caps in it. I tried to cycle the lever and dang, the round popped out but the next one hung out about 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch and stopped the action from loading the round. ...

"The round popped out..." from what?  I'm not sure what you are describing regarding this jam.  If the rounds are too short and you loaded at least two into the magazine tube, you would not be able lever the rifle at all, meaning the carrier would not rise (again, the mechanics of this is explained in Pettifogger's article referenced earlier).  Do you know the OAL of the Ultramax rounds?  These guns should cycle rounds 1.4" just fine.  How much shorter than that you can go I'm not sure, but there is not a lot of variation in these guns, like there is in some '92's and Marlins regarding what length they will feed.  I personally would not worry at all about whether it will feed .38's if you are using almost any factory ammo, or any handloads that are not using really stubby bullets.  Now, some older '73's (more than 15 yrs) had issues with .38's and needed the ramp on the front of the carrier to be modified to give it more slope, but this is easy to do and hasn't been an issue for a long time.

Regarding the 16" barrel.  If this is a Cimarron, it should hold ten .357's.  If it is not a Cimarron, then you will definitely need to use .38's and may or may not need to cut the mag spring to allow it to hold ten.

Good luck.

[RickB]

Sorry for my poor descriptive use. Yes, that is exactly what happened. The fist round (I only loaded two) failed to load because the second round in the tube protruded out enough to keep the action from being worked. It was a feed jam. I had to use a pen to push the second round back into the magazine tube so I could get the first round to rise up and chamber.

From my tape measurement of the A-zoom snap cap, it shows it is 1 7/16ths inches long. The Ultramax ammo I have measures in at 1 9/16ths of an inch. So it appears that the .38 ammo is 1/4 inch longer than the snap caps. I'm not sure that the ultramax stuff is uniform from round to round. I think it is reloads. It says "reconditioned" on the box. So there might be some variations in length but it appears that most rounds are longer than the snap caps are.

They don't say that it's a gun from Cimarron or Taylor's or any known importer. They just say it is an Uberti.

I really would like a 1873 rifle for use with my .38 RM revolvers. I like the length of this gun and the cost is really good too. I am just bothered that it might not feed my ammo like I want it to for when I get to the range. Having a gun that can't feed my ammo reliably is one sure way to ruin a good day shooting with my friends at the NCOWS shoots.

This really has me bummed out.

[RickB]

Oh, one more thing. The Ultramax rounds have a round nose bullet. Does this really pose a problem with them sitting nose to primer in the mag of these 73 rifles?

It's not pointed, just round.

I'll go back and read the link that was posted about the 73. I just skimmed over it the first time.

I know it sounds goofy but I kinda really want this rifle to work for me and want to buy it, but I fear buying a money pit of a gun that I will need to send away to get it to feed .38s reliably.

[RickB]

OK. I read Pettifoggers article and I understand a lot more. So the .38 rounds I have are similar to the .38 milspec but with a lead bullet instead of a jacketed one. The Ultramax lists 158 grain bullets.

If I am reading the toggle link 101 right, the problem I would be having with this rifle could be solved by making the feed ramp on the carrier at such an angle that it pushes the second round back into the magazine tube. I'm not sure I have the tools or skills to do this. I wonder if it's possible to buy just the carrier that has had this modification and replace the one that comes with the rifle? I could just see myself doing the ramp wrong and making it so the rifle needs a replacement carrier anyway.

Anyway, any feedback on this idea is appreciated. I'm just trying to do what I can to make a good outcome to what appears to be a somewhat bad situation.

Another solution is to wait until next weekend and see if I may find a good lever rifle that can reliably handle .38s at the big gun show we have at the fairgrounds. It's a crap shoot that way. It seems that all the dealers there are pushing the AR platform rifles and it's far and few between for any Cowboy rifles. The revolvers are pretty easy to find, but any Uberti rifles are very thin in the mix. I am wanting a 73 or a 66. I would prefer a 73.

I have a 66 in .45 colt. That is for when I want to use my .45 Schofields or Colt clone. The 73 would be for when I want to shoot my RM conversion 1851s chambered in .38 special. I don't want to use .357 in the rifle and .38s in the pistols because my ASM 51 RM conversion has a cylinder that is long enough to take .357 rounds. Odd as that may seem. It is chambered for .38 Colt rounds actually but I've been told that it should be able to handle .38 specials without fear. My other RM 51 is an Uberti chambered for .38 special. So mixing up a .357 in my ammo could have major issues.

OK. Enough of my gabbing. I'll wait and see if anyone cares to offer any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any and all.

[Abilene]

Well like I said, unless that '73 is reaaally old, the carrier should handle most .38's fine.  Although, if that snapcap was 1 7/16" then that is 1.43" and I would have expected that to feed.  If the ramp on the carrier did need to be "lengthened", you could always pull it out of the rifle and send it to a gunsmith if you doubted your ability to do it.  It should not be expensive.  You would be able to tell by laying your round in the carrier how much further back the ramp needed to extend.

In my .357 '73, the round on the far left in this pic is the only one that is too short to feed: http://www.davidscottharper.com/photos/38-357.jpg

I've known of a few folks in the past who used round-nosed ammo in their rifles, but most will recommend flat-nosed bullets in tubular magazines.  Even though chainfires are rare, they do happen.  Most "cowboy" ammo that is sold has a flat point.

[Pettifogger]

I'm going to start this reply with a "please don't take offense" disclaimer.  I usually write short and to the point responses and directions on how to fix problems.  Sometimes people take offense when none is intended.  That having been said --

YIKES!!!!!!  You CANNOT measure ammunition with a tape measure.  We aren't talking sixteenth's of an inch, we are talking a few thousands of an inch.  You need to get a caliper, period.  All 73s are chambered for .357 Magnum, not .38 Special.  All 73's will fire .38 Specials IF they are of the correct dimensions.  For example, you say the ammo is 1 7/16" long.  This equates to 1.4375".  Most 73's will cycle ammo this length.  Most 73's will NOT cycle ammo that is 1.420" long.  That is .017 (seventeen thousands of an inch) difference.  You cannot tell that with your eye using a tape measure.  The width of the marks on your tape measure are wider than .017."  NO 73 was ever made with the short carrier like that described in the article, those were only found on early Uberti 66s.  NO Uberti 73 carrier has a straight carrier face.  They all have a pretty decent bevel on the front.  The common stubby 158 grain round nose flat point that was used in revolvers for decades is to SHORT when seated to the cannelure in a .38 Special case.  Bottom line is to avoid problems make your .38 ammo 1.500 +/- .020 (which is a .040 spread and that is a HUGE dimensional variance) and you will have no problems.  Start going below 1.450 and you will get close to have problems.  Much below 1.430 and you WILL have problems.  I think that there is a 99.9999999% probability there is nothing wrong with the gun you looked at.  Your measurements are simply to coarse.

[Blair]

Pettyfogger,
 
Thank you. So very much!
  Blair

[RickB]

No offense taken.

I'm only able to use the tools at my disposal and I don't know that I would be very learned in how to use a good caliper. Maybe I'll see if I can find one.

In the mean time, I didn't think that the snap caps I had were accurate length compared to the .38 special rounds I had bought. Currently I don't reload my own .38s but I intend on getting the dies and doing so once I get the money and when Lee had the model I want in stock.

I will try to take the actual .38 rounds up to the dealer and see if he will let 2 or 3 cycle through the gun just to make sure it works as needed. Heck, I'll let him be the one that does the racking of the lever just to show him I'm not going to shoot him.

I'm not sure about the front of the carrier. Is it flat or beveled? I don't know. I'm learning a lot from you guys about checking for that stuff.

I bought 500 rounds of Ultramax .38 special with 158 grain round nose lead bullets last fall and paid around $138.00 for them. I'll use the brass from these to keep reloading more. Same as I do my 9mm and my .45 Colt.

I think since the Ultramax ammo is 1/4 of an inch longer than the A-zoom snap caps that this should allow the ammo to feed as needed.

I got concerned because I have read a number of posts by guys on SASS wire and other forums saying that they have had issues with feeding .38s in some Uberti 66s and 73s.

This gun is the Trapper model 73 with the 16 inch barrel and it has an odd safety under the lever that must be pushed in by the lever to pull the trigger or lower the hammer. Not liking that but I figure I will either get used to it or will work to bypass it if it becomes a problem.

Thanks for your input. It's appreciated.

[Abilene]

Howdy Rick.  All the repro '73's have that lever safety.  The originals had it as well.  On the Uberti's the spring for that safety is often rather stiff, but it is not difficult to reduce the tension of that spring or replace it with a piano-wire spring.  Many folks over the years have just removed that safety, and frankly by doing so you are making your '73 no less safe than a '66 which does not have that safety (except some of the very early repros).  However, out-of-battery discharges do become possible, especially if you are a speed demon, so usually the recommendation is to leave it in there but just lighten the spring if desired.

Regarding calipers, you can pick up a dial caliper for under $20 and they are really easy to use.  Here's one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-dial-caliper-66541.html 
They often have digital calipers on sale for less than that, and I really like them except when the battery goes dead.  So I also have a dial caliper for those occasions 

[RickB]

Thanks Abilene. If the safety is authentic to this model then it will stay and I'll learn to use it. I'm no speed guy so it won't do me any good to do away with it.

I'll check on those calipers.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings My Good Rick -
If you like, I can load up some dummy .38's with lead bullets, (no powder, and no primer) to the length of your choice and send via snail mail. No powder, no primer = no problems with USPS. I like to drill a hole thru the side so it is CLEARLY a dummy.  Of course they won't get there till sometime next week, but....

Bob knows (that's Bob yer Uncle) ,  I have enough 38 cases so that without the impossible to find small pistol primers, it will be no hardship at-all  on my end - and right now, i really need something useful to do  

let me know, pm me or whatever ...
yhs
prof marvel