38-40 Help Needed ?????

[rbertalotto]

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Today I picked up an original 1873 Winchester in 38-40. I know zero about this cartridge so I'll ask a few questions and hopefully the folks here will have a few answers.

#1) Black Powder only?
#2) If folks are shooting smokeless, what powders?
#3) 41 cal, correct. What is a reasonable Lee mold?
#4) Where can I get brass?
#5) Who makes dies for this cartridge?

THANKS!

[Jefro]

Howdy rbertalotto, great cartridge. I shoot BP anyhow so that's all I'd run in it. If yer gonna try smokeless have a gunsmith check it out. Slug the barrel to see what size bullet, maybe .401-.403??, the .401 should work. I know with my original Win 73 44/40 it took a .427, the .429 I ran in the Uberti would not chamber. For BP you want the Big Lube mold or bullet with compatible BP lube. Schuetzen BP burns cleaner than Goex for the same price. Brass from Starline. Any of the die makers have 38/40 dies, I use Hornady New Dimensions, and some Lee. Good Luck


Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[rbertalotto]

Well, this barrel is so far gone I don't thing slugging it would make any sense. It looks like a sewer pipe and it is ringed exactly half way down. I ran patches and even 0000 steel wool to see ig I could find rifling......It's toast!

Tonight ........

I ordered 200 pieces of brass, wads and a compression die from Track of the Wolf

I ordered a set of Lee dies from Titan Reloading

 I ordered a Lyman #401043 mold from Custom Cast Bullets on Ebay.


Now I just need to decide if I'm going to reline the barrel and chamber myself or have someone do it. The price to buy the barrel drill and barrel liner is $200 and I can rent a reamer for $36. Just about the exact same price to have Redman do it. But I can do it in a day, not sure how long a gunsmith would take. I need this rifle in action ASAP for CAS this summer.

I have the lathe and I've rebarreled dozens of rifles so I'm not concerned about being able to do it, I just won't have any need for the drill ($103) once this rifle is done....Sure wish I could rent or borrow a barrel drill.

We'll see

[Trailrider]

If you are going to all that trouble, why not reline it to .44-40, but using a .429" groove liner?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Go to      http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm       to see when it was made.

I hve an old '73 that came with a sewer pipe on an otherwise sound gun.  An \octagon rifle cut to 20 inches by the original owner and acquired from his son.  I had it relined to its old caliber .44WCF.  The suggestion to rebarrel to .44 is a good one, `though.

.38WCF is not difficult and is unique.  Once you have the dies, cases can be made from .44WCF in one pass.  I use the RCBS Cowboy mold.   Any powder that works in a .44-40 will likely work in the .38-40.  I only use BP as the only one I have is an old SAA from 1896 and not smokeless proofed. I think there is Trailboss data out there, Titegroup works well in capacious cases and again there is data from Hodgdon.  I also use Herco in my .44s as I have several pounds that were given to me.

Alliant has some loads;

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=5&weight=180&shellid=10&bulletid=13

Couldn't find it in hodgdon but found a listing here, but you have to be a member;

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=5072&caliber=.38&caliberid=20&header=.38%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data

Handloads.com has data for one load with Unique;

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=38-40&Source=&Type=rifle

BINGO!

http://www.reloadammo.com/3840.htm

PET LOADS by Ken Waters has data which I will look up within a couple of days.  I can PM you suggestions from there, but you might let me know what you have available and i'll let you know what Ken Waters has said about it.

Here is the mold I have.  make sure it has the crimp groove;

.401" 40-180 180 Grain 2-Cavity RCBS Cowboy Bullet Mould
 Item: RCB82306  
 Manufacturer: RCBS

Then get a LEE Collet crimp die.

 

[rbertalotto]

If you are going to all that trouble, why not reline it to .44-40, but using a .429" groove liner?

I want to keep the marking on the barrel and elevator correct.

I am a member at "Load Data"........I'll check it out. Thanks

[pony express]

I have the lathe and I've rebarreled dozens of rifles so I'm not concerned about being able to do it, I just won't have any need for the drill ($103) once this rifle is done....Sure wish I could rent or borrow a barrel drill.

We'll see

Well, I guess you'll have to open up shop as a barrell re-liner to get your money's worth out of it.

Or just buy more shot out 38-40s and .44-40s to rebuild.....

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I couldn't find 38wcf data on Hodgdons site, maybe there is a cowboy data listing I missed?

I do have a paper copy of Hodgdon's 2008 Annual Manual and there are a few loads in the pistol section.  Not much but it includes Titegroup and Trailboss. I found a chapter in Ken Waters PET LOADS.  This is a great resource, especially for older rounds and powders, and is widely available.   I noticed when I googled that it is up to the 8th 9th edition!

Pretty pricey as well;  http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bsi=0&tn=Pet+Loads&x=61&y=10

Sadly, or not, you have to go elsewhere for blackpowder data.

Here is a wikipedia article;  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38-40_Winchester

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I want to keep the marking on the barrel and elevator correct.

I am a member at "Load Data"........I'll check it out. Thanks

WOW!  I just now logged on to load data;  I filled the screen twice just for a list of data banks just on .38-40.  Yep, I used "just" twice.  I've been a member for a couple of years without actually checking it out.  I repeat; WOW!