Vetterli help?

[River City John]

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I have the opportunity to pick up a converted-to-centerfire Vetterli. I have always been fascinated by their look.

Has anyone some guidance or info for me?
I have read that both .348 Winchester and 8mm Lebel cases could be modified, and Lee has a mold for a .341? I'm going to assume it would be a black powder arm?

RCJ

[JimBob]

Here's a site with some info on the rifles and some on cartridge making you might check out.

[River City John]

Here's a site with some info on the rifles and some on cartridge making you might check out.

Link did not copy, JimBob.

RCJ

[JimBob]

Link did not copy, JimBob.

RCJ

ooops http://www.militaryrifles.com/index.htm#MainIndex

[Drydock]

THe Lee 338 mold usualy drops right around .340.

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/rifle-bullet-molds/bullet-mold-double-cavity

However, I suspect you really meant .430?  In which case the Lee 430-310 gas check should be just right.

[River City John]

Probably the .430. Found an article that the author uses the same slug he loads in his .44magnum revolver.
Also uses another source that casts a .44 320 gr. sized to .431. Buffalo Arms sells converted Winchester .348 brass, although kinda pricey.

Oh well, I'm bit hard.

Educate me on why and wherefore of gas checks . . . article does not mention the use of gas checks at all. Here I was hoping it was as easy as loading the case full of Black Powder, seating and crimping then shooting and smiling.

RCJ

[pony express]

I have no personal experience with them, but from what I've read, the loading can be a bit tricky to get right. The overall length is critical, since it doesn't have a cartridge stop, like a '73 Winchester. I suggest searching on SurplusRifleforum, there's quite a bit there on them. One member, NormSutton, posts lots of detail abouty them.

[River City John]

I also read the history and seems it was never used in any wartime action. I guess I'd have to be very free-lance portrayal, such as an infantryman in the service of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick or similar.


RCJ

[pony express]

I haven't had a chance to look anything up yet(trying to do taxes). I seem to remember problems with gettingt the right bullet to stabilize, while still being able to load it to the proper overall length. Some were experimenting with varing the case length, to get it to work with the available bullets.

If you use one in a match, you could change the line at the beginning of every stage to something like"Don't shoot, I'm NEUTRAL!!

[Delmonico]

I also read the history and seems it was never used in any wartime action. I guess I'd have to be very free-lance portrayal, such as an infantryman in the service of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick or similar.


RCJ

How about an Ensign in the Swiss Navy?

BTW, Jules Sandoz a Swiss native and father of author Marie Sandoz, imported dozens of those into Nebraska in the 1890's for resale to other settlers.

[RattlesnakeJack]

I also read the history and seems it was never used in any wartime action. I guess I'd have to be very free-lance portrayal, such as an infantryman in the service of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick or similar.

John:

Assuming you are speaking of the Swiss Vetterli rifle, that was because Switzerland was never an aggressor, and nobody seems to have reckless enough to try to invade!



On the other hand, if it is an Italian Vetterli you have a chance to get ..... I think you'd look quite impressive in a uniform like this!

[pony express]

Since it's a "converted to centerfire" one, then it's Swiss, Italians were always centerfire. Completely different design, about the only thing in common is the appearence of the back end of the bolt.

[River City John]

How about an Ensign in the Swiss Navy?

BTW, Jules Sandoz a Swiss native and father of author Marie Sandoz, imported dozens of those into Nebraska in the 1890's for resale to other settlers.

Then I'll be a Nebraska farmer with his Vetterli and Colt Open Top . . .

You'll send me link to that documentation, of course.

RCJ

[River City John]

It's Swiss, 10.4 X 38R.
The Italian's all seemed to be 10.4 X 47R.

RCJ

[Delmonico]

Then I'll be a Nebraska farmer with his Vetterli and Colt Open Top . . .

You'll send me link to that documentation, of course.

RCJ

I'll see if I can find my copy of Old Jules by Marie Sandoz, that's where I got it.

[G.W. Strong]

I guess I'd have to be very free-lance portrayal, such as an infantryman in the service of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick or similar.

I'm not sure about that. As I recall the Duchy of Grand Fenwick was still armed in a medieval fashion well into the 20th century. This may have changed somewhat since the appointment of High Constable Tully Bascomb. 

[River City John]

 

Well, they do have the absolute best nuclear device obtainable. One that is broken and doesn't work.


RCJ

[Drydock]

You could always be a Swiss Guardsman.  Though you always see them with their halberds, they have always kept rifles close by, and they were used in anger during the Italian unification. Too early for Vetterli's, but the idea is there.

I personaly like the Duchy of Grand Fenwick idea myself.  Limited only by your imagination.  Did'nt Grand Fenwick have a Navy?  A lake along one border, with a boat perhaps, armed with surplus Vetterli's?  

[G.W. Strong]

Imagine the possibilities for ducal uniforms!

[Delmonico]

I think a sodbuster up along the Runningwater in Nebraska would still be the best bet. 

http://www.northshire.com/siteinfo/bookinfo/9780803293243/0/

[Pitspitr]

If you play Old Jules you'll need to get meaner and make sure you leave your horse saddled in the barn long enough that when the neighbors take it's saddle off the horses skin comes with it. I work with one of Mari's cousins

Captain Miles Keogh and Captain (Bvt. Col.) J. J. Coppinger (the post commander at Fort Hartsuff 1875-1878) were close friends and both served in the Swiss Guard before imigrating to America where they both served in the Civil War prior to being sent west to fight indians. Maybe a former Swiss Guard serving in the US Army who broght his Vetterli with him would be an appropriate persona.

[River City John]

I'll see if I can find my copy of Old Jules by Marie Sandoz, that's where I got it.

Read enough that there is some question whether it wasn't a Vetterli single-shot.

RCJ

[River City John]

Well, as it happens, I have TWO Vetterli's now, a converted one of an earlier serial number, and an unconverted one in Fine grade with a ramrod (converted one didn't have a ramrod and was a bit rough, but good bore.) that falls in the 1877 serial date.

Danged if there wasn't just enough hand finishing on these mid 1870's rifles that the bolts do not really interchange.

So in checking, no gunsmith in my area does the conversions.
Any GAF personnel who are gunsmiths with experience converting rim fire bolts to centerfire? Charles Isaac, is this up your alley?

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Switzerland/VetConversion/VetterliShooting.html

The above site gives a good tutorial on one way to modify the bolt and firing pin. I prefer this method as it preserves the double-pronged rimfire striker if you ever wanted to return it to original configuration.

RCJ

[pony express]

RCJ, looking at the diagram in that link made me wonder....maybe if you dis-assembled the bolt assembly and use the converted bolt and striker??? Or is there too much hand fitting for that to work.

[River City John]

I disassembled both and tried to piece together a converted bolt out of both that would fit. The extractors were of two different dimensions because they were hand fitted, and the firing pins were of slightly different lengths. The narrower extractor was on the unconverted bolt, and there is a channel that it rides in when bolt is pulled back. It actually measured a bit longer in length also, with a longer trough it fitted in on top of the bolt.
ARRGH!

Preliminary fiddling with all the parts was unsuccessful, and I did not want to start filing or grinding here and there yet.

The type of conversion done on the one used the two pronged rimfire striker with the horns ground down so they would no longer extend past the face of the end of the bolt and a hole drilled through the center with a free floating firing pin. The long striker pin was unaltered.

What I like also about the method shown in the link conversion is that the new centerfire firing pin is one piece with the striker, so it is pulled back out of the way when the bolt is worked to eject the shell casing and is locked back ready to fire the next cartridge.

RCJ