Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 19, 2014, 01:09:58 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  NCOWS (Moderators: Will Ketchum, St. George)  |  Topic: Coach Guns 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Coach Guns  (Read 5828 times)
Okefinokee Outlaw
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 304



« on: March 06, 2012, 09:46:11 am »


I saw a post in another CAS topic stating that the existence of 20" barrelled shotguns has not been documented.  This would be good news, since I would have a good reason to purchase another shotgun.

Might anyone have any info on this?
Logged
Tascosa Joe
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1576


« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 10:10:41 am »

I dont have any info on the availability of 20" guns, but the bulk of the shotguns made in the US or Imported from England, Belgium, and France were 30 or 32".    When you go to your local gun show or at least around the North Texas area you very seldom see a pre 1900 shotgun with a short barrel.  I would guess the ratio to be 1 short gun to ever 250 to 300 long guns.  I would venture a guess that 99% of the short barrel guns I have seen were cut off at later date as most I have seen have no choke. 
Logged

NRA Life, TSRA Life, NCOWS  Life,
Cash Creek
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 469


In GOD we trust..all others cash only..


« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 10:22:39 am »

Stoeger Coach Guns come in 20 inch barrel...CC

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-coach-guns.php
Logged

Hiram Ranger #100, Westside Sportsmen Club, NCOWS 3395, SASS 90169, NRA, Col. Bishop's Renegades... Cowgirls are like barbed wire…handle with care.
Okefinokee Outlaw
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 304



« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 10:38:36 am »

Cash,  I know they're available (I have 2), but if not historically accurate, I will replace with longer barrelled guns.
Logged
Books OToole
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2086


Michael Tatham


« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 10:41:15 am »

Don't chuck you short barrelled doubles yet.  There is documentation out there.  I will follow-up later when I have my library at hand.

Books
Logged

G.I.L.S.

K.V.C.
N.C.O.W.S. 2279 - Senator
Hiram's Rangers C-3
G.A.F. 415
S.F.T.A.
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 4914



« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 10:47:35 am »

I saw a post in another CAS topic stating that the existence of 20" barrelled shotguns has not been documented.  This would be good news, since I would have a good reason to purchase another shotgun.

Might anyone have any info on this?

Yeah!  Camille Eonich seems to identify me with NCOWS, which is flattering.  She says she likes her sawdoff '97 but doesn't know what the historians at NCOWS  (National Congress of Old Whiskey Sippers Huh) would say about the PC of barkeeps guns?

I am an Alone Ranger and have never attended, or competed at, an NCOWS match.  I'm not aware of any rule prohibbiting them but what is the practise?  Of course, the majority don't use shotties at all in the Working Cowboy class.
Logged

NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
Pancho Peacemaker
NCOWS Texican Senator
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1554


NCOWS #3120, SASS #75813


WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 01:32:00 pm »

I saw a post in another CAS topic stating that the existence of 20" barrelled shotguns has not been documented.  This would be good news, since I would have a good reason to purchase another shotgun.

Might anyone have any info on this?

This is good "hard" evidence:

RL Wilson  "The Book of Colt Firearms, 3rd Ed."  pp.483-490.   The 1878 Hammered Colt SxS was produced in factory lengths from 18" to 34".   The 1883 Hammerless Colt SxS was offered in 18" to 36" barrel lengths.  Wilson does note that 28", 30", and 32" were the standard lengths.

Madis  "The Winchester Book".  He notes the Winchester 1887 and 1897 were produced in 20" barrel lengths as "Guard" or "Riot" guns.  The '97 was also offered (post 1900) in 20" "Trench" variation with the bayonet lug.

So there is documentation, but to back up Tascosa's writing I have a handful of pre-1900 hardware catalogs.  Browsing through two  (N. Curry & Bro. San Francisco, 1884 and George W. Harder's, Williamsport, PA, 1890) shows that ALL of the sporting SxS shotguns (Ithaca, Parker, Remington, etc...) were only offered by these retailers to the public in 28", 30" or 32" models.  This tells us that the "shorties" were not common and factory special orders.
Logged

NRA - Life
NRA-ILA
TSRA - Life
S&W Collectors Association

 

"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
-T. Roosevelt (1858 - 1919)
RickB
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 803


Black Jack


« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 02:17:24 pm »

I have a SxS that has short barrels and dates from the 1880s period.  It's an old mule eard external hammer coach gun. I still shoot it but only use dove or light loads due to it's age. I'll post some pics when I get the chance. 
Someone could have bobbed the barrels but if they did it had to be a long time ago.
Logged

Ride Safe and Shoot Straight.
Rick.
Tascosa Joe
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1576


« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 02:26:00 pm »

I did not mean to say there weren't any 20" or shorter, just that the long barrels are much more common.  I am sort of a collector of American Double Guns and I have several from 3 of the 5 big American makers.  30" seems to be the most common.  Followed by 28 then 32.  All other barrel lengths were special order.   I have seen several commercial '97 Winchesters over the years with 20" barrels from the factory.  All were marked Cyl.   9 times out of 10 on a short '97 if it says anything but Cyl it has been cut off.
Logged

NRA Life, TSRA Life, NCOWS  Life,
Tjackstephens
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1632



« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 03:23:57 pm »

I have seen a 20 inch coach gun that was carried by the shotgun guard on the Deadwood stage coach. I don't know who bought the gun, but it had a letter with it that told where it came from and where it was used. As today shotgun barrels are cut down, do you not think they were cut down also in the 1800's. If the ideal is to call 20 inch coach guns incorrect, then that is a pretty poor ideal. After all they are called coach guns. Tj  Shocked  Roll Eyes
Logged

Texas Jack Stephens:   NRA, NCOWS #2312,  SASS # 12303, Hiram's Ranger #22,  GAF #641, USFA-CSS # 185, BOSS# 174,  Hartford Lodge 675, Johnson County Rangers,  Green River Gunslingers, Col. Bishop's Renegades, Kentucky Col.
RickB
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 803


Black Jack


« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 08:38:21 pm »

I haven't taken the time or effort to find out the brand of this shotgun but it is a solid gun and shoots well. It's a 12 guage and accurate as can be. I'm currently using a new model SxS with exposed hammers in 20 guage that can take the modern loads.

I've put this old timer in my safe to keep in usable condition. I only paid $150 for it a few years ago and have been happy with it since that day.



* sg2.jpg (84.63 KB, 980x552 - viewed 176 times.)

* ssg3.jpg (64.21 KB, 980x552 - viewed 163 times.)
Logged

Ride Safe and Shoot Straight.
Rick.
Dusty Tagalon
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 448


SASS 32291, NCOWS L170, GAF 74


« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 09:19:22 pm »

I like my Stoger, too bad they don't make a hammered.
Expensive, but I am very happy with my CZ-Hammered, (Huglu).

Brian
Logged
Steel Horse Bailey
Jeff "Steel Horse Bailey" - BP Warthog & C&B Shooter
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 6170


A Master of the Sublime & Holy Order or the Soot


« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 11:09:16 pm »

I'm in agreement with Tacosy Joseph.  While the longer barrels were much more common, the shorties DO exist.  Matter of fact, Pedersoli has just released a percussion hammer that has VERY short barrels.  10" or so.  It is aimed toward the Confederate Cavalry folks, because they were not uncommonly found used there.  They are WAAAAAAY cool looking guns, and because of their percussion status, they don't run afoul of BATF.

For example:
http://www.cabelas.com/black-powder-davide-pedersoli-20-gauge-double-barrel-coach-shotgun.shtml

Long barreled shoot-guns weren't the ONLY ones available.
 Grin
Logged

"May Your Powder always be Dry and Black; Your Smoke always White; and Your Flames Always Light the Way to Eternal Shooting Fulfillment !"        

SEE MY PHOTOS: http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/m1a1mstrgn/
NCOWS #1919 for Life, SASS Life #27463, NRA Life, Honourable Master of the Black Arts, GAF#98, SBSS, WARTHOG, STORM, American Legion Post # 495
*and a few other organizations*
F.&A.M. - Wayne Guthrie Lodge #753 *** Hiram's Rangers #105
(former) US Army M1 & M1A1 Tank Master Gunner
AKA - Jeff Bailey  A Three-Percenter & Sheepdog

Take me out to the black, tell 'em I aint comin' back. Burn the land; boil the sea: you can't take the sky from me. Have no place I must be; since I found Serenity:  you can't take the sky from me.
by Joss Whedon 2002 - Firefly
Pancho Peacemaker
NCOWS Texican Senator
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1554


NCOWS #3120, SASS #75813


WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 01:43:20 pm »


I am an Alone Ranger and have never attended, or competed at, an NCOWS match.  

We need to change that Sir Charles. Wink

You are welcome to join us in a match down in Texas anytime.  I think you'd enjoy the experience.  October is our Southwest Regional.  (www.bergersharpshooters.com)

If you get yourself down here, I'll supply the guns, leather, and ammo.  I don't share hats, so you'll need your own. Grin


Pancho
Logged

NRA - Life
NRA-ILA
TSRA - Life
S&W Collectors Association

 

"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
-T. Roosevelt (1858 - 1919)
Tascosa Joe
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1576


« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 02:34:42 pm »

I have seen a 20 inch coach gun that was carried by the shotgun guard on the Deadwood stage coach. I don't know who bought the gun, but it had a letter with it that told where it came from and where it was used. As today shotgun barrels are cut down, do you not think they were cut down also in the 1800's. If the ideal is to call 20 inch coach guns incorrect, then that is a pretty poor ideal. After all they are called coach guns. Tj  Shocked  Roll Eyes
T-J you are jumping the gun here.  Nobody is trying to outlaw anything, we are just having a discusssion.  I  also think O/O is looking for an excuse to buy a new shotgun and blame it on us.  LOL 
T-Joe
Logged

NRA Life, TSRA Life, NCOWS  Life,
Okefinokee Outlaw
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 304



« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 03:22:58 pm »

That is true T/J.  I really didn't mean to start an argument.  But I still think I need one.  I'll think of another reason.  I'd really like an original, but the prices I'm seeing are a bit high for me.
Logged
Books OToole
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2086


Michael Tatham


« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2012, 03:25:53 pm »

Other than complying with the Federal Firearms Act of 1934, NCOWS has no restrictions on barrel lengths.


Books
Logged

G.I.L.S.

K.V.C.
N.C.O.W.S. 2279 - Senator
Hiram's Rangers C-3
G.A.F. 415
S.F.T.A.
Tjackstephens
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1632



« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2012, 03:29:39 pm »

Joe, Sometimes I have the ability to do that. Tj
Logged

Texas Jack Stephens:   NRA, NCOWS #2312,  SASS # 12303, Hiram's Ranger #22,  GAF #641, USFA-CSS # 185, BOSS# 174,  Hartford Lodge 675, Johnson County Rangers,  Green River Gunslingers, Col. Bishop's Renegades, Kentucky Col.
Pancho Peacemaker
NCOWS Texican Senator
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1554


NCOWS #3120, SASS #75813


WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2012, 04:16:22 pm »

That is true T/J.   But I still think I need one.  I'll think of another reason.  I'd really like an original, but the prices I'm seeing are a bit high for me.

Okefinokee Outlaw,

I had the itch last fall to carry a long barreled double at NCOWS matches.  I don't want to destroy an original, so I picked up this:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,40369.0.html

I got it from 3 B Shooting Supply.  His price on these is amazingly low.  I think he has a few more in stock.


I really enjoy shooting it.


Pancho
Logged

NRA - Life
NRA-ILA
TSRA - Life
S&W Collectors Association

 

"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
-T. Roosevelt (1858 - 1919)
James Hunt
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 699



« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2012, 04:30:53 pm »

Don't tell Black Bart they were neither there nor used:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/angry_idol/6041281631/

I find my Moore & Co. just the ticket when confronted by those pesky Pinkertons:

Logged

NCOWS, CMSA, NRA
"The duty is ours, the results are God's." (John Quincy Adams)
Tjackstephens
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1632



« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2012, 05:29:35 pm »

O/O, Might want to check with Rowdy. Think he got a long barrrel TTN copy of the Colt coach gun. He has even used it to hunt with. Tj  
Also sorry for getting the wrong idea, just seems of late every thing I read is about changing something. Do hope you find a really great shotgun. Tj
Logged

Texas Jack Stephens:   NRA, NCOWS #2312,  SASS # 12303, Hiram's Ranger #22,  GAF #641, USFA-CSS # 185, BOSS# 174,  Hartford Lodge 675, Johnson County Rangers,  Green River Gunslingers, Col. Bishop's Renegades, Kentucky Col.
Shotgun Franklin
Top Active Citizen
*
Online Online

Posts: 2033



« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2012, 06:52:24 pm »

I wouldn't surprise me to learn that there were 250 long barreled shotguns for each coach gun. Even now there are more shotguns bought for hunting and sport than for defense. Right now we have one coach gun and two hunting type shotguns at my house.
I do think o/o must buy a long barreled shotgun as a tribute to all the sod busters who carried one West.
Logged

Yes, I do have more facial hair now.
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 4914



« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2012, 07:03:59 pm »

We need to change that Sir Charles. Wink

You are welcome to join us in a match down in Texas anytime.  I think you'd enjoy the experience.  October is our Southwest Regional.  (www.bergersharpshooters.com)

If you get yourself down here, I'll supply the guns, leather, and ammo.  I don't share hats, so you'll need your own. Grin


Pancho

The closest I got to you was El Paso.  That was still 11 hours drive away.  YUP Pards;  Texas is BIG! Cool

Now my buddy has passed on, a visit anytime soon is not very likely. Cry Cry Cry
Logged

NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 4914



« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2012, 07:12:37 pm »

Okefinokee Outlaw,

I had the itch last fall to carry a long barreled double at NCOWS matches.  I don't want to destroy an original, so I picked up this:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,40369.0.html

I got it from 3 B Shooting Supply.  His price on these is amazingly low.  I think he has a few more in stock.


I really enjoy shooting it.


Pancho

Pancho;  Don't talk too loudly about how effective longer barreled shotguns are, or we will lose our advantage! Cheesy

I think we should start a board for "closet gamers" Grin Grin
Logged

NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
Okefinokee Outlaw
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 304



« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2012, 10:32:14 pm »

Shotgun Franklin,  I agree.  I simply must buy one as a tribute.  I'll start by selling my CZ/Huglu hammer coach gun, which will propel into my search.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  NCOWS (Moderators: Will Ketchum, St. George)  |  Topic: Coach Guns « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.072 seconds with 22 queries.