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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Frontier Iron (Moderator: St. George)  |  Topic: Laramie latch swap to fixed sight 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Laramie latch swap to fixed sight  (Read 3385 times)
Wild_Willie
Will Blastem, BOSS #213
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« on: February 13, 2012, 10:55:17 pm »


So I got two Beretta Laramies in .45 Colt and wish to shoot them in SASS events.

  Well, I was ignorant of the 'rule' about the 'adjustable sights' and read a little on the swap of the barrel latch to the Uberti Russian latch with fixed sights.

  VTI had two in stock so I snatched them up.

  The install was simple easy, up until the hammer impacts the latch...

  So, I reckoned that modifying the already swapped out part, in lieu of shaving the hammer was the best and cheapest approach.

  I also looked at the mechanism and the hammer appears to 'lock' into a pocket of the latch during firing to keep from popping the cylinder open, so modifying that interlock didn't sound like the best plan either.

  I dremeled out an area for the hammer to clear, sort of a notch or pocket.

  It is passable yet very functional.

  I will post pics this weekend for those that are interested.

~Will
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Tall Dark Slim
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Carolina Gunslinger


« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 07:22:44 am »

1. Jealous that you have two Laramies to compete with.
2. Interested to see what you mean by this pocket and the mod to make it fit.
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John Smith
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 08:37:15 am »

Which rule would that be, about adjustable sights that is?
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Irish Dave
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 11:04:44 am »



FWIW, the Laramie adjustable sights are very nearly identical to the original S&W target sights of the 19th Century. There are numerous examples of New Model No. 3s from the period that were factory equipped with these sights.

While they may or may not be kosher for SASS, they have been approved by NCOWS.


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Dave Scott aka Irish Dave
NCOWS Marshal, Senator and Member 132-L
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Wild_Willie
Will Blastem, BOSS #213
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 08:00:10 pm »

Specifically:  SASS page #9

REVOLVER – FIXED SIGHT MODELS last paragraph under ALLOWED EXCEPTIONS:

"The Beretta “Laramie” rear latch with the adjustable rear sight may be replaced with the rear latch (with fixed sight) from the “Russian” Model to be allowed as a fixed sight model revolver. Any other revolver by whatever manufacturer or model that has either a dovetailed or screw adjustable front or rear sight, whether movable or adjustable, is an adjustable sight revolver."


Cheers!

~Will
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John Smith
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 08:34:16 pm »

I realize it is an acceptable modification, but why go to the time and expense of doing it?
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Wild_Willie
Will Blastem, BOSS #213
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 11:03:06 pm »

I realize it is an acceptable modification, but why go to the time and expense of doing it?

  That is a good question.  I am not sure I have the answer, but, I was thinking that since there isn't an NCOWS club up this way (SLC Utah) and I don't want to shoot "B WESTERN" but a more traditional category that this would be fun to showcase the Laramies there.

  Oh yeah, I got them off of GUNBROKER, seperately.  First was the 5 inch nickle and about 6 months later the blued 5 inch - both in .45 Colt

  I want to try shooting them with .45 Schofield or that .45 Cowboy Special with Swiss BP and see how they perform, or whether they bind up fiercely (as I hear from other BP shooters).

  As far as expense, well my wife asks me the same thing: it is a hobby & I have fun.

  Next I am planning on tackling my own holsters.

~Will

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Silver_Rings
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 12:00:25 pm »

Howdy Will,

You are right, it is a hobby.  Hobbies cost money, so go for it and have fun.

Making holster is a lot of fun, but you can't make just one or even two.  It can be a whole new hobby.

Silver Rings
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Gunfighter, SASS 27466, NRA Life, GOFWG, BOSS, RO 1, RO 2
Wild_Willie
Will Blastem, BOSS #213
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 09:50:10 pm »

Pictures, sorry for the delay.

Here is the blued Laramie with the hammer fully forward showing all the area removed from the barrel latch insuring no material is preventing the hammer to fall, while still maintaining a certain degree of 'LOCK' on the latch to prevent opening during fire.



--

Again the blued Laramie, I haven't cleaned this up and re case colored it as of yet.  Can you tell it was the first one I started work on?  Wink  Its a bit rough, but shootable.



--

The nickled Laramie, second latch modified and I did a better work (IMHO).



--

  All in all, I am pleased.  It wasn't an easy $65.00 (each) latch swap, but, 10 more minutes with a dremel tool and probably another hour to prep & case color and they are now CLASSIC COWBOY Beretta Laramies!

  This weekend: HOLSTERS...  Cool

~Will
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Driftwood Johnson
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2012, 08:32:42 pm »

Howdy

To further this discussion I have posted some photos om my Smith & Wesson New Model Number Three. The Beretta Laramie is a replica of the S&W New Model #3.

The New Model Number Three was the culmination of Top Break design for S&W. It was the most sophisticated of all the Top Break revolvers they made.

The New Model Number Three had a rebounding hammer. There was a spring that forced the hammer back as soon as the gun had fired.  In this first photo I am forcing the hammer forward with my thumb, overcoming the rebound spring. This is the position the hammer would be in as the gun fired. Notice the notches at the base of the hammer. In this position, the sear can be seen. The sear is part of the trigger. With the hammer in this position, the sear is forced forward and is resting against the curve of the hammer.

Observe the position of the sear relative to the hammer notches in the following photos and also observe the clearance cut in the hammer.






The next photo shows what I call the 'at rest' position of the hammer. The rebound spring has forced the hammer back slightly and the sear has popped into a flat milled on the bottom of the hammer. With the hammer in this position the sear is wedged against the flat at the bottom of the hammer. The hammer cannot move without breaking the sear. The cylinder is still locked with the hammer in this position. Notice too that the clearance cut in the hammer has moved back slightly. More about that when we look at the latch.






In the next photo, the hammer has moved back to the half cock position. The sear is trapped in the half cock notch, much like the half cock notch on a Colt. The bolt has been withdrawn now, and the cylinder is free to rotate. The clearance cut in the hammer has moved back a little bit more.







Finally, the hammer is now at full cock. The sear has popped into the full cock notch and the gun is ready to fire when the trigger is pulled.






Now, let's take a look at the latch.

Here are two photos of the latch itself. The gun is only partially open, so the hammer can be seen. Notice the relief cut in the hammer and the small shelf at the bottom of the latch. Also notice that the entire area above the shelf has been machined away.








OK, let's start to put it all together. In this next photo the hammer is at the 'at rest' position. The gun has fired and the rebound spring has pushed the hammer back to the 'at rest' position. But notice that the shelf in the latch is still partially obscured by the hammer lip above the clearance cut. With the hammer in this position, the latch cannot be opened because the hammer prevents it from rotating up.






In this next photo the hammer has been pulled back to the half cock position. Now the latch can be rotated up to break the gun open. The cylinder is also free now to rotate. This is the position the hammer must be placed in to load and unload the gun.






OK, just a few side views to complete the explanation. In the next photo, I am again forcing the hammer forward with my thumb, as if the gun has just fired. The hammer has not yet rebounded, it is all the way forward. There is enough clearance around the hammer and its clearance cut for the firing pin to extend all the way forward to fire a cartridge.






In this photo, the hammer has rebounded to the 'at rest' position. Notice there is not enough clearance for the for the latch to be operated. The hook at the top of the hammer will interfere with the shelf at the bottom of the latch if the shooter attempts to open the latch at this time. By the way, it took me a while to figure this part out.







Finally, the hammer has been pulled back to the half cock position. The cylinder is now free to rotate. There is now enough clearance between the shelf in the latch and the hook in the hammer so that the latch can be opened and the gun broken open for loading  and unloading.


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That’s bad business! How long do you think I’d stay in operation if it cost me money every time I pulled a job? If he’d pay me that much to stop robbing him, I’d stop robbing him.

Ya probably inherited every penny ya got!
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Frontier Iron (Moderator: St. George)  |  Topic: Laramie latch swap to fixed sight « previous next »
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