Author Topic: Cross Sticks  (Read 30002 times)

Offline Tascosa Joe

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Cross Sticks
« on: February 14, 2012, 02:32:06 PM »
Does anyone have a picture of cross sticks actually used during the buffalo hunting era?
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Offline Two-Step

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 03:44:13 PM »
I am assuming that you are referring to commercially purchased cross sticks, rather than improvising one by holding or lashing two sticks together.

Dixie Gun Works Cross Sticks

What DGW says: This particular version was especially popular with buffalo hunters of the 1870s since there were few trees on the great plains and one never knew where he would make his next stand.

I have also seen a few other variations, but they all pretty much apply the same principle. I tried to find some historical prints of long range buffalo shooting, but have not had any luck so far.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 08:27:33 AM »
I guess my biggest question would be did the originals have the spikes in the ends or is that an invention of the BPCR shooters.  Thanks for the picture.
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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:23:58 PM »

Offline St. George

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 08:38:13 AM »
The originals would've been closer to straight dowels, than anything else - pinched together with the off-hand.

Probably Willow, as that's a pretty straight wood - and readily available near streams.

As to the statement by Dixie - it'd be highly unlikely that the shooter would be discarding a working shooting aid after each stand - even more unlikely that he'd have pre-drilled holes and a wing nut and a cute leather sling.

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Offline wildman1

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 08:44:56 AM »
They used whatever was handy, sometimes the ends were tapered and fire hardened to prevent slippage in rocky ground or loose soil. WM
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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 11:04:33 AM »
I built a set in the shop similiar to Dixie's but I was quite sure that was not authentic.  There is a lot of cedar and salt cedar in the breaks as Texas rises from the Central Plains to the Hill Country.  The Southern Buffalo Range started roughly in that area.  I will see what I can cut.  Thanks for the help.
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Offline Trooper Bill

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 12:08:27 PM »
 I know that we had buff here in the north-eastren Idaho area, and they hunted them here to the point they long gone. And from personal experience, I know the even hardened wood cross stick points wouldn't hold in our shalely rocky soil here. I've tried many times in many different areas. I'm thinking that they would have had to put a sharpened rod or nail in those original sticks to keep their guns from hitting the ground! I've retired my smaller set because they are to small to put a metal point in with out splitting. Personal experience only here.

Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 10:13:00 PM »
It would be really easy to make a pair of these ... one 36" for sitting and 22" for prone shooting.

My only question is:

How far down the sticks to make the pivot point?

TTFN,
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 11:57:23 AM »
Unless somebody makes me, I am not going to shoot my sharps from the prone psn.   It has the military butt plate and is not that comfortable to shoot after about 40 rounds.  I know I am a sissy. I built a set 42" tall and had holes and inch appart down to 24 inches.  But I am looking for a more correct version.

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Offline Slowhand Bob

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 04:25:11 PM »
What might work fer ya pard is to make a leather joint, dawnt smoke it though!  This is to perform the same function as that off hand hold they was talking about, where the two sticks cross.  Heavy leather with a couple of holes sized to be a tight fit fer the sticks should work.  On that top piece of leather you can actually fold the leather ends over and sew down the two sides to form a pocket on each end fer the sticks to slide into.  Add the spikes and you will have an attractive light weight set of shooting sticks.  Not sure iffen they is any rules on height, size or construction for SASS matches BUT I do think all of this is regulated in some other sports?

Offline Two-Step

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 05:07:54 PM »
As to the statement by Dixie - it'd be highly unlikely that the shooter would be discarding a working shooting aid after each stand - even more unlikely that he'd have pre-drilled holes and a wing nut and a cute leather sling.
Actually, the concept is very simple and uses items that where common of the era.
The "cute sling" is not a sling, so much as it is used to prevent the separate ends of the two sticks from separating to far apart and used as the resting point for the rifle.
The wing nut has been used as far back as the 16th century (that I have found so far) and examples of it is used on items such as medical equipment, cork screws, and saws. Also, examples of the "thumb adjust nut" can be readily found.

Drilling is one of the oldest tool skills known, probably a close second to knapping and coming just before we figured out how to start a fire. It really does not take a great deal of intelligence and skill to drill a hole, using only some very basic materials... even I can do it.

A great example (IMHO), in shooting stick technology and materials is the available survey equipment of the era and the "repair" pieces he might have had on hand. Essentially, surveying equipment would provide the perfect materials to base a shooting stick on and one could easily think of a surveyor placing his rifle on the stand, in order to steady his shot... then the hunter seeing that it was a pretty good idea.

I would think that most buffalo hunters used the tools and ingenuity at their disposal. As simple as shooting sticks are, I would think that the buffalo hunter would simply have made it rather than bought it... not like there where a lot of stores in buffalo country back then.

If I do happen to find "commercially available" shooting sticks of the era, I will be sure to post it.



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Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 11:37:21 AM »
Hi,

I am probably overthinking this problem ... I have been told that I have a tendancy to do that ....

But can anyone take a rule to their sitting and prone cross sticks and let me know how far from the shooting end the pivot bolt is drilled?

I only want to make a set each and would rather not have several holes in mine....

Thanks in advance,

TTFN
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 11:56:16 AM »
Skip:

A the height to the joint would depend on you to an extent.   I am 5'6" with a slightly taller body.  My sticks for sitting are 24" to the hinge.  Kneeling would be closer to 30.  Frank Mayer in an interview in his 80's demonstrated "Rest Sticks" for a photographer.  He described the sticks as about 30" long with a bolt to hold them together.  The photo is of him kneeling.  Also, the period references to them call them "Rest Sticks" instead of cross sticks.

Joe

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Offline James Hunt

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 01:48:07 PM »
Joe: Pursuant to our discussion via the message board I'll post this information here. I think I have posted it before:

With the advent of long range black powder cartridge shooting most all are familiar with what we often call shooting sticks or cross sticks to steady the heavy rifle barrel. We are all familiar with the fact that buffalo hunters used them, but often the reference is lacking if questioned and a Remington or modern painting seems the only documentation we recall. I post the following two primary source descriptions of these items for our use.

One is being used by a buffalo hunter, the other by a Texas Ranger considered an outstanding shot by his peers. There is no indication that either source was aware of each other although both hailed from Texas. In both cases the term "rest sticks" is used. That should probably be the term we employ at any historical event until further documentation suggests something else.

The first description is from Frank Mayer in "The Buffalo Harvest" by Mayer and Roth, originally edited by Roth in 1958 and reprinted in 1995 by Pioneer Press. From page 44:

"A heavy rifle fired so close to the ground reverberates and causes more sound than one fired higher above it. So if you were prone while firing you would soon frighten your game away. We used rest sticks which put us about thirty inches above the ground, we either sat while we fired or fired from a kneeling position.

"The sticks were a simple device, merely two pieces of hard wood bolted together so as to provide a crotch in which you put the heavy barrel, held the barrel and sticks steady with the left hand, which made shooting almost like using a bench rest."

On page 43 Mayer, now an old man, demonstrated the use of rest sticks with his Sharps in a photograph. The sticks appear about three feet long, and his hand is gripping them near the top with the rifle forearm sitting upon the crotch of the sticks, and perhaps the upper part of his hand while he is assuming a kneeling position. Note that he said a bolt connected the sticks although this cannot be seen in the picture. The sticks appear to be about an inch thick although it is difficult to tell if they are round or flat sided. Note that he does not describe or show any towel, leather or other contraption attached to the sticks to rest the rifle forearm or barrel in as is so often the case with modern shooters and commercially prepared "rest sticks".

The other source is from a Texas Ranger officer, Lieutenant Baylor who was considered an outstanding shot. He had gotten rid of his .44-40 carbine and favored a .45-70 Springfield sporting rifle for Indian fighting. James B. Gillett writes in his excellent book "Six Years with the Texas Rangers 1875 to 1881" (available from University of Nebraska Press) on page 144:

"He always used what he called rest sticks; that is, two sticks about three feet long the size of one's little finger. These were tied together about four or five inches from one end with a buckskin thong. In shooting he would squat down, extend the sticks an arm's length out in front of him with the longer ends spread out tripod-fashion on the ground. With his gun resting in the fork he had a perfect rest and could make close shots at long range. He always carried these sticks in his hand and used them on his horse as a quirt."

Note the similar length, although Mayer's sticks seem a little more robust. Note the common use of the term "rest sticks". Note their simplicity. No fancy attachments, multiple holes for adjustments, or anything else seen on the modern product.

Note the picture of Mayer - albeit he is not the most accurate source given he was an old man when he talked of this stuff. But for a picture he probably remembered it correctly. Note that the junction of the sticks leaves about  5 inches above the joint.


These are my "rest sticks" following Lt. Baylor's design.

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Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 01:50:25 AM »
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Offline James Hunt

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 09:51:45 AM »
Here are a couple of sources for pre-made cross sticks:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/154226/cats-shooting-sticks-buffalo-cross-sticks-prone-model-24-solid-oak

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163910&CAT=3795

http://www.cal-graf.com/products-page/silhouette-shooter/cross-sticks/

Enjoy! (I like the Buffalo Brothers ones, but the cal-graf's wood knobs are kinda neat ...


All nice, but I would not associate any of them in the context of a historical event - that would leave the wrong impression with a viewing public.
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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 12:56:40 PM »
James:

Thanks for posting those articles.

Joe
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Offline shrapnel

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2012, 08:18:55 AM »
Ralph Heinz, who is a noted Historian and an acclaimed artist, told me the function of the cross stick was best utilized by placing the barrel in the cross, then pulling the cross stick back against the front of the forearm to help steady the rifle. He was commissioned by C Sharps rifle company to illustrate their catalogs and also to make posters of buffalo hunters using their craft in the field. He gave me a couple of prints and you can see how he described the historically accurate depiction of a buffalo hunter and cross sticks...

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Offline Grogan

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 10:11:10 PM »
Hi,

I am probably overthinking this problem ... I have been told that I have a tendancy to do that ....

But can anyone take a rule to their sitting and prone cross sticks and let me know how far from the shooting end the pivot bolt is drilled?

I only want to make a set each and would rather not have several holes in mine....

Thanks in advance,


TTFN

WaddWatson,

While this style ISN'T "Historically Accurate", here are some serviceable ones that I made for ~$10 with components purchased at my local Home Despot.





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Grogan, SASS #3584

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Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Cross Sticks
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2012, 11:45:23 PM »
Grogan,

So, I am guessing the sticks are about 36" ... how far down from the top/vertical end is the hole for the pin?

TTFN,
My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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