ballistic fillers

[Jack Wagon]

I like using 5744 in my 45-70's but don't like the unburned powder left behind. I have to blow it out of the actions to keep them working properly. Does the use of ballistic fillers like puf-lon eliminate this problem, or is it just added expense and an extra step. I'm using 25 gr. of 5744 and a 405 cast lead bullet. Thanks JW

[cpt dan blodgett]

Do not know of any loading manual that advocates use of fillers with Smokeless

[Jack Wagon]

Come to think of it Cpt. Dan I don't either! I guess that's the answer, Thanks for the reply. I'm very happy with 5744 except for the unburned powder thing, but it blows out easily.   JW

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[Marshal Deadwood]

You dont really need fillers with smokeless. With some smokeless..you do find the issue of 'position sensitivity' ,,where it can fall away/forward.. from the primer in such a way that velocities and pressures are not constant.

Don't wanna get over my head here,,but I think I've seen the guys talk about using a bit of bathroom tissue to hold the load rearward and more constant to the primer.

I use 5477 (when I'm not shooting bp),,,,it's bulky and I've yet to find a  position sensitive issue with it.

Deadwood

[Jack Wagon]

Marshal, I don't have a position sensitive issue with 5744, that's why I use it for my smokeless loads in black powder cartridges. It always shoots accurately and consistently. My problem with it is the unburned powder left behind in the action, that needs to be blown out every few shots. I've heard that with a ballistic filler (like puf-lon)  it burns completely and eliminates that problem. I was just wondering if any of you had any first hand experience with this.  Thanks JW

[cpt dan blodgett]

Have heard from some that one gets better burns with a good crimp.
That being said, wonder if there would be less unburned with a heavier bullet as well.
Dont have it with me, but as I remember from my new lyman manual one of the bold loads indicating potentially most accurate with cast bullets in 45/70 is the 5744

[Jack Wagon]

What I was trying to accomplish with the 5744 load was an accurate, safe load I could use in all of my 45-70's. That's why I chose the .459, 405 cast flat nose bullet so I could use it in my lever action. I put a taper crimp on it thinking it would feed better through the lever action as well. Maybe I should use a firm roll crimp. The 25gr load shoots great in all of my guns, but in the trapdoor and rolling block in particular, I have to blow the powder out every couple of shots. I guess that's not too much to ask, since it meets all of my other expectations.  JW

[cpt dan blodgett]

From Lyman Cast Bullet manual
86 win and Marlin only  400 grain Lyman #457643 2.530 OAL
5744 31.5 grains 1421 20,100 CUP in bold as potentially most accurate (starting load)

Spring field load
Lyman #457193 405 gr 2.550 OAL
IMR 4198 35 gr 1463 17,700 cup BOLD as potentially most accurate  (also max load)

As luck would have it they dont list data for either of the 2 bullets I just picked up, but they are in the 480 - 500 grain range so the data for close bullets will be safe.  Will stick with springfield max loads even though rifles are both probably safe with marlin level loads

[rbertalotto]

A good crimp and a 1" square piece of toilet paper gives me the best accuracy with 5744 under a 535g bullet in my 4570 Sharps and 1885 HiWall

[Jubal Wilson]

Jack Wagon,
     I will give you my experience with Puff-Lon ballistic filler. Almost all my reloading has been with black powder cartridges. I also found that some powders like 5744 and 4759 would leave lots of unburned powder grains in the barrel and actions of my guns. I have found that using Puff-Lon has completely eliminated the unburned powder grains. Puff-Lon is different than a wad of TP or a tuft of Dacron. It is a fine grained something with graphite in it (I think) which helps lube the barrel. Pour in the powder then fill the rest of the case to the mouth with Puff-Lon which then gets compressed when seating the bullet. This insures that there are no air pockets to create mischief. I have found that using Puff-Lon increases the pressure and velocity for a given load so you might want to reduce the load 10% then work up. Many people don't like fillers but they have worked for me for over 55 years.
     In my Uberti Winchester 1876 my most consistent and accurate load with 5744 uses Puff-Lon. Of course I only use that load when no one is looking. The rest of the time I shoot Holy Black.
     By the way I have no connection with the makers of Puff-Lon. I am just thankful that it is available to help solve some of my problems.
 
Jubal

[August]

I use 4759 in place of 5744 and that eliminated the unburnt powder.  To really get away from unburnt powder, Unique does a great job in the old, large cases.

I have personally ringed the chamber of a very expensive Hi Wall using fillers.  I won't ever use fillers over small volume loads again.

There are two kinds of shooters who have used fillers.  One is the guys who say they've used it for years without a problem and, two is the guys who have ruined a good rifle by using it.

[Jack Wagon]

Thanks guys for sharing your experience on this topic.  JW