Author Topic: spanish copies of american arms..  (Read 11405 times)

Offline petrinal

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spanish copies of american arms..
« on: December 04, 2011, 09:54:31 AM »
not all copies were of bad quality, and some were good.


in a german auction i found a really hard to find ANITUA AND CHAROLA copy of the 1873 SAA....very very hard to see here.

it seems that the guards of the BANCO CENTRAL in Madrid carried one of these guns as side arm, along with other long arms.

i have never examined one...thought i dont think quality was excellent. There were more copies from other manufacturers...the main market was probably LATIN AMERICA...where a COLT was extremly expensive....some english markings like COLT SYSTEM´S were included...probably to fool possible buyers into thinking they were buying a true COLT.







Now, something different, an expensive and good gun......a TROCAOLA HERMANOS copy of a SMITH WESSON gold SEAL or Triple Lock, and quality is really good...it was bank proofed, which is a plus, all machining is excellent, as well as finish, mechanism, and shoots like a champ. It belongs to a friend. Caliber is 44 special...and i insist, it was an expensive and well made gun with good steel, hard to distinguish from a  SMITH WESSON.








And now the last one, that belongs to me...it is typical modelo 1884 revolver, a more or less close copy of S&W 1881/82 DA model...these ones were patented in 1884 in  SPAIN by ORBEA, a manufacturer of good quality arms (i have seen SW RUSSIAN copies almost impossible to distinguish from the american originals, with even same blueing.)...

this gun was officially "recommended" as a personal weapon for officers of the spanish army, who had to buy their own gun, and was used by spanish Guardia CIVIL (rural police) and were sold in quantities to the british army...who accepted most, but rejected some.

the "recommended" were in 11mm calibre, base in the 44 russian, the ones made for BRITISH ARMY, in 455".






ORBEA rennounced to the patent in 1890, so many other manufacturers of good and bad quality begun making copies.

some like ANITUA AND CHAROLA, and TROCAOLA were good...some others were...horrible!

the demand during WW1 from ITALY and FRANCE, and UK (Spain remain neutral and sold guns mainly to the ALLIES) was so huge that a company was formed by several makers to sell them in the conflict...

this one I show was made in 455 caliber for the BRITISH ARMY, (hence the date 1914, that shows it was design to be sold to ALLIES) and probably rejected, then sold in civil market in SPAIN.







rifling is still good...



you may wonder why i dedicate more time to the gun that is supposed to be more "average", but there is an interesting story about it..

it was used in the spanish civil war, by a famous anarchist....

well, most of these guns  found today here, were used in CUBA, PUERTO RICO, and in several campaigns in AFRICA, in the spanish collonies, and most were still used in the Spanish Civil War of 1936/39..

all the best

Offline Big T

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 07:09:29 AM »
Those are Nice , I like the copy's , I have 2 belgium Texas Rangers I love to shoot an they are dang accurate , they are both marked 38 , an i have shot 38 S&W, 38 colt an 38 special thru them i loaded for CAS they are very simple on the inside as well


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Offline Long Johns Wolf

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 07:17:43 AM »
Big T: these Belgian Texas Rangers are square butt clones of the Colt Lightning. Back during the 1930s they were made for US mail order house Johnson Smith by Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liège (FAUL).
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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #3 on: Today at 04:46:18 PM »

Offline Big T

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 02:56:43 PM »
that was my assesment as well , but I had someone on one of the other rooms tell me they werent bt I tried looking up his references an never got anywhere with the deal , ,thanks though I had a good idea they were somthing cool but it was just from shooting them an how accurated they are even da they hit very well ,t
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Offline hawkeye2

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 09:32:13 PM »
     Is that the same Johnson Smith Co. that had full page ads in the comic books in the 50s and 60s?  They sold magic tricks and all kinds of novelties and I believe they are still in business.

Offline Long Johns Wolf

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 06:37:32 AM »
Hawkeye: sorry, would not know.
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Offline St. George

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 09:01:14 AM »
The 'Texas Ranger' was a Belgian copy of the Spanish Model 1929 revolver, made by Eibar.

Five minutes with a search engine - using 'Texas Ranger Revolver' as initial criteria will bear this out - then add 'Eibar' and one will see that they were among those Post-WWI  inexpensive imports that flooded these shores and were sold through several outlets.

For more - look at 'The Revolver' by Taylerson.

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Offline Big T

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 09:44:29 AM »
The 'Texas Ranger' was a Belgian copy of the Spanish Model 1929 revolver, made by Eibar.

Five minutes with a search engine - using 'Texas Ranger Revolver' as initial criteria will bear this out - then add 'Eibar' and one will see that they were among those Post-WWI  inexpensive imports that flooded these shores and were sold through several outlets.

For more - look at 'The Revolver' by Taylerson.

Vaya,

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Well it didnt do anything for me if its so easy to find post the link to the page its on i will gladly go look , but just the same as last time I got nothing but a bunch of crap pages on commemeratives an Walker design pistols , I am beginning to think you know as much about guns an you did about knives , t


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Offline St. George

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 10:37:44 AM »
I typed in exactly what I offered - Texas Ranger Revolver.

Then - because these guns are known to be Spanish/Belgian guns - I typed in 'Eibar' following 'Texas Ranger Revolver'.

If you followed the initial instructions - winnowed out those guns actually associated with the Texas Rangers, and then added 'Eibar' - you 'should' get this one at - guns.connect.fi/gow/QA18.html

Open it.

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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 10:51:24 AM »
I typed in excatly what I offered - Texas Ranger Revolver.

Then - because these guns are known to be Spanish/Belgian guns - I typed in 'Eibar' following 'Texas Ranger Revolver'.

If you followed the initial instructions - winnowed out those guns actually associated with the Texas Rangers, and then added 'Eibar' - you 'should' get this one at - guns.connect.fi/gow/QA18.html

Open it.


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Neat site.  The Finns do love their firearms!
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Offline St. George

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 11:07:43 AM »
Indeed they do.

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Offline Big T

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 10:43:54 AM »
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA18.html I got this page to come up an here is what i seen "EIBAR M 1929 revolver was a pattern of Texas Ranger; copy of COLT Model 1872 with somewhat improved single & double action trigger mechanism. Grip panels are of Ebonite/Vulcanite (hard rubber).

Source of drawings: ASE-ATLAS by A.B.ZHUK (Russia/Finland)."
Which dont make much sense to me because the Colt 1872 was an Open top gun to my knowledge ,it also said above the opposit of this statement that the eibar 29 was the gun the ranger copied which one is accurate ,it dont really matter cause the guns i have are great id prolly pick up more pf them if they were as accurate as these are , t
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Offline St. George

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Re: spanish copies of american arms..
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 11:04:41 AM »
As is the problem with many translated articles - there's a big risk of seeing a typo - as you have.

The Eibar Model 1929 'is' the 'Texas Ranger'.

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