Hell On Wheels

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Remarkable photo! Looks like someone on the show did some research.

I was watching some of the cast and crew notes and they had quite a few folks contributing to the show.

The only cartridge guns you will find are those Yellowboys and a Spencer and Henry's. Not one single cartridge pistol (aside from prop conversions) will be used... unless its a S&W Model 1.

[GunClick Rick]

The darn thing just ain't lightin a fire under my arse for some reason

Maybe it's the timing on the release of it,i've missed a couple,but i'll keep watchin,i better put on my Festus outfit and get on there and perk things up a little.

"Dad burn it get them jee jaws outta ere and grab at sledge hammer,i don't wanna see nuttin but elbows and hine ends and the sound of steel on steel,dad burn lazy scudders"

"Oh howdy mam"

[Beauregard Hooligan]

I won't harangue you folks about the guns, that's been done elsewhere, but I do have a problem with the Cheyenne. In the last episode Wes Studi, a Cheyenne Chief, who is a genius actor and full blood Cherokee, had his son race the train back to town. This is picky, I know, but there was a light saddle under the blanket, as well as stirrups and the horse was iron shod. It makes riding hell bent for election safer for the rider, but the Cheyenne didn't use saddles or stirrups, and Indian ponies were barefoot. BTW, Wes Studi has played characters from may other American Indian nations, but he finally had the gift of playing a Cherokee in 2009's The Only Good Indian, where he is a very conflicted bounty hunter, trying to live like a white man, bringing his own people in for bounty. The film takes place in the early 1900's, and he rides a motorcycle, carries a Mauser 96 pistol and what looks like a Remington Model 8 rifle with a telescopic sight. I'd recommend this film if for nothing more that Wes Studi's performance.

[PJ Hardtack]

Very observant about the saddle under the blanket and the horse shoes!

I confess that at times I get caught up in the story and miss some of the details. The movie makers count of 'suspension of belief' at times to facilitate the plot.
Audiences are getting to be more sophisticated and expect more attention to such things. Our days of innocence are gone. The 'B' movies and serials we grew up on are now like cartoons - white hats, fringed shirts, etc.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

The darn thing just ain't lightin a fire under my arse for some reason

Maybe it's the timing on the release of it,i've missed a couple,but i'll keep watchin

They are running a marathon today at 3:pm till 11:pm all episodes

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Worth noting is that those of us from Norge where often called "Swede" by those from the south during the 1800s.

My Great-Grandmother's oldest brother was known as "Swede" when he worked in a dry goods store in St. Joseph before heading back to the Dakota's.

100% Norwegian on that side of the family... ya fight the battles worth winning.

I recently read that the actor playing "The Swede", Christopher Heyerdahl, is of Norwegian descent, born in British Columbia.  He says he copied his Fathers accent to play the role/.  Thor Heyerdahl, the sailor, is his Fathers cousin.

http://www.timescolonist.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Even+creep+heart/5922591/story.html

[Professor Marvel]

Except for the pilot (first episode) I had missed the shows when originally aired.

Thus I had looked forward to today's Marathon with Great Expectations and Anticipation.

Perhaps I have become jaded, but the numerous "incorrect issues" (nearly all of which have been previously mentioned)
began to pile one atop another and finally get my goat, until I found myself yelling at the TV :

"I can take all the brass framed pistols! I CAN TAKE that they are trying to blast flat Dirt!
But  DadGummit! You are trying to Dig Dirt!
Whyforever are you taking a Sledge Hammer to Smack the Dirt !!! Just Dig It up! "

I have completely lost my "Suspension of Disbelief" which is absolutely vital to continue :-(

It is most unfortunate that the producers, directors, and writers did not avail themselves of the talent and knowledge available, and instead put out yet another piece of schlock.

I can say I liked the suits and hats.

We have switched over to The Dog Whisperer until I find my "Crossfire Trail" DVD and new version of "True Grit". Those folks knew how to get it right, even to the point of using an open top colt and a bolt action Remington-Keene .

your grumpy viewer
prof marvel

[Delmonico]

Professor Marvel, I have recorded all the shows but have yet to view more than the pilot, just have to many important things that need done. 

The dirt bothered me in the pilot more than anything except that they said they were building near Council Bluffs Ioway.  Well that came much later when there was a connection from the east and a bridge across the river. 

[Major 2]

The purpose , is to entertain ( so we will watch then try and sell us on their products commercials )

Like you Professor, I did not stay up to watch the 10PM original airings ..Oh I tried ... I tried to get past the Propmaster's video
clip telling me , his research   " that a brass frame 1960 non clone was a Griswald ( Griswald & Gunnison )
or a 1866 was the "only" cartridge firing rifle avaiable at the time.

So I tried, to watch.... I really did...  it had a good gritty look.... but I'm sorry the story was to thin and to slow....

I flipped it off, flipped back once or twice ... then FLIPPED off for good.... I was not entertained, and have no idea whom was selling what !

"Crossfire Trail" DVD and new version of "True Grit".  were good  ( liked "Last Stand at Saber River" & Quigley too )

I was even entertained by Cowboys & Aliens ... well once anyway.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Well, if its that hard for folks to suffer throughh how do you keep your DVDs of any John Wayne movie from flying across the room?

I have watched it from the beginning and give them just as much leeway with certain facts and events as I do John Wayne and John Ford movies.

Compared to all the other crap on TV, this show is a breath of fresh air.

[Professor Marvel]

Well, if its that hard for folks to suffer throughh how do you keep your DVDs of any John Wayne movie from flying across the room?

I have watched it from the beginning and give them just as much leeway with certain facts and events as I do John Wayne and John Ford movies.

Compared to all the other crap on TV, this show is a breath of fresh air.

The John Wayne flicks have what I still consider to be pretty d***n good acting by the Duke and his supporting actors. That added to excellent directing, well written story lines and attention to "other" detail can carry one past the anachronisms of the films of that era (ie model 1892 winchesters in 1880) that were rampant 50-60 years ago!

In any John Ford film, the exquisite cinemetography, the writing, dialogue, and the results he got the actors to produce make most minor prop issues irrelevant, because the overall result carries the viewer completely, and they are so engrossed in the story line and the visuals that they have little or no time or desire to nitpick let alone notice.

Ford also ensured continuity, so if The Duke had a 5 1/2 inch 1873 SAA in his right hand upon entering a room, we can be sure that he DID NOT shoot the bad guy in the room with a 7 1/2 inch oct. barreled 1851 .

In the first five minutes of "Hell"  our hero uses an oct bbl 1851 to shoot the soldier in the confessional, but upon leaving he holsters the fake brass framed 1860 (which is standing in for the named Gunnison and Griswold - and BTW a replica G&G can be bought right now here http://tinyurl.com/Gunnison-and-Griswold )

Besides that John Ford had men digging dirt with picks and shovels, not sledge hammers. Sorry, but that is just dumb and so easy to have corrected during filming if they really cared. And there is the rub - all these "little problems" and the BS  clearly prove They just don't care .

Add to that the Big Important Sneak Preview featuring the Special Gun Morons Experts spouting pure BS (as previously discussed in this very thread) and I have become soured to it entirely.

I don't have a ton o' time  for R&R to waste it on bad films. Settling for Second Rate products will only encourage that They will continue to make second rate products and actually be proud of them.

your grumpy servant
prof marvel

[Major 2]

I don't know Professer 
maybe

" But  DadGummit! You are trying to Dig Dirt!
Whyforever are you taking a Sledge Hammer to Smack the Dirt !!! Just Dig It up! "

just maybe it's poetic the show "just go pounds dirt !  "

[River City John]

I have not bothered to comment on this thread, but last night's show kinda pushed me out of remaining neutral.
I tried to keep an open mind. I wanted the show to grab me.


But putting a Confederate saber on a U.S. cavalryman (Think in terms of a U.S. officer deciding to wear a Nazi dagger suspended from his uniform belt post-WWII because it was his wartime capture. It was proscribed, period.) leading a unit armed with repeaters (And yes, the U.P.R.R. had a batch of Henry rifles, but not for the military's use. The military never issued repeater's, even for field trials, post-CW. ), . . .

And another thing, why are the streets within Hell on Wheels in a constant state of sodden mire while most scenes away from camp it is dry and the horses kick up dust? Last night was the first time I saw a rainstorm within camp.

I am a railroad fan and historian, too. The train wreck displayed modern truck frames and wheelsets in the wreckage - and how did the boiler explosion that blew apart the domes over the firebox miraculously repair themselves in the very next shot showing the engine?

Ahh well. No amount of mediocre acting will lull me into watching this program in the future.

RCJ

[Delmonico]

John, the horse's pee a lot.  

I don't know if I'll bother watching the rest, I'll save them till I need the space of the DVD thing.  As I commented after watching the pilot, there is far more wrong than the guns, just depends on how broad your knowledge is I guess.

[PJ Hardtack]

Some people are just a little too sophisticated and 'broadly knowledgeable' for some made-for-TV productions. We are in a time now where one of our chief joys is in picking up on the flaws and inaccuracies in any movie, especially westerns, for those of us who play 'Cowboy',
This series is heads-and-shoulders above any made-for-TV series or John Wayne movies we lapped up when we were less so demanding.

I just noticed the Canadian connection in the credits for the first time last episode. I checked the web site for locations and couldn't find them. If it was filmed in Alberta, that explains the familiarity of some of the scenery to this Alberta-born Pilgrim. Money for movie productions in Canada is hard to come by; much more so than in the US. That explains why real trains aren't being blown up to satisfy the purists.

Paul Gross made "Passchendaele" in Alberta, "Gunless'' in British Columbia on shoe string budgets and did them well. The guns in the first film were right on as far as I could tell, and he used real Canadian soldiers as extras, many of them vets from Afghanistan. They looked and acted like what they were - hard ass Canucks.

In "Gunless", they call a '51 Navy a Paterson, but he discusses that in the special segments about making the film. Other than that, I couldn't fault the guns. The gun handling is great, obviously well rehearsed and practiced, as in all movies. All of it would get your butt kicked off a CAS range PDQ!

[Professor Marvel]

Some people are just a little too sophisticated and 'broadly knowledgeable' for some made-for-TV productions. We are in a time now where one of our chief joys is in picking up on the flaws and inaccuracies in any movie, especially westerns, for those of us who play 'Cowboy',
This series is heads-and-shoulders above any made-for-TV series or John Wayne movies we lapped up when we were less so demanding.

And that is where we shall have to "agree to disagree". IMHO "Hell" is just schlock and I won't waste further time on it .... but opinions are like ... heads - yes that's it heads. Everybody has one :-)

Paul Gross made "Passchendaele" in Alberta, "Gunless'' in British Columbia on shoe string budgets and did them well.

By contrast, I found "Gunless" on netflix streaming and My Lovely Spousal Unit and I thoroughly enjoyed it! I did not nitpick anything because it was (again IMHO)  A Good Story, Well Told™  which is my basic requirement :-)

As an example, I enjoy and do not nitpick "NCIS", or "The Sopranos", all because I find them to be A Good Story, Well Told ™  and the positives all outweigh any negatives. I know there are nits to pick, but the show is, overall , so well done that the viewer is completely drawn into the story and so engrossed that they have little opportunity to get out their magnifying glass for Nit Searches.  And, for me, that is where "Hell" has consistently fallen short.

Thus I prefer to spend my downtime in friendly chats online in forums such as this, where we can all expound upon our opinions over the Adult Beverage Of Choice ( coffee is an adult beverage! That is my story and I am sticking to it )

yhs
prof marvel

[Professor Marvel]

I recently read that the actor playing "The Swede", Christopher Heyerdahl, is of Norwegian descent, born in British Columbia.  He says he copied his Fathers accent to play the role/.  Thor Heyerdahl, the sailor, is his Fathers cousin.

http://www.timescolonist.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Even+creep+heart/5922591/story.html

Ah My Dear Sir Charles -
Thanks for the link, the Lovely Spousal Unit and I just knew the Swede looked familiar. The sad part is, in the sepulchural makeup for "Hell" he looked nearly identical to his role in as a Wraith in whatever stargate spinoff that was....

yhs
prof marvel

[Colt Fanning]

Howdy,
I was impressed by the large electric motor turning the circular saw mill saw used to square up the cross ties.
Regards

Colt

[Professor Marvel]

My Dear Dell & Major -

Dell - do give it try before deleting, perhaps you can get past the bad bits.... at least "Hell" is better than that oldy moldy "Sabata"

Major - I fear that I am oddly fixated upon the use of sledge hammers to dig dirt...    I fear that somehow that is just stuck in my poor little grey cells...

yhs
prof marvel

[Professor Marvel]

I have not bothered to comment on this thread, but last night's show kinda pushed me out of remaining neutral.
I tried to keep an open mind. I wanted the show to grab me.


But putting a Confederate saber on a U.S. cavalryman (Think in terms of a U.S. officer deciding to wear a Nazi dagger suspended from his uniform belt post-WWII because it was his wartime capture. It was proscribed, period.) leading a unit armed with repeaters (And yes, the U.P.R.R. had a batch of Henry rifles, but not for the military's use. The military never issued repeater's, even for field trials, post-CW. ), . . .

And another thing, why are the streets within Hell on Wheels in a constant state of sodden mire while most scenes away from camp it is dry and the horses kick up dust? Last night was the first time I saw a rainstorm within camp.

I am a railroad fan and historian, too. The train wreck displayed modern truck frames and wheelsets in the wreckage - and how did the boiler explosion that blew apart the domes over the firebox miraculously repair themselves in the very next shot showing the engine?

Ahh well. No amount of mediocre acting will lull me into watching this program in the future.

RCJ

Ah My Dear John -

re the sabre: based on the issues with the revolvers i am not surprised, but somehow I find it even sadder that they attempt to explain it away...

I can understand the difficulty in obtaining correct antique RR trucks, but regarding the explosion , well, whoever is in charge of continuity, is, perhaps, less than competent? 

I am surprised that we both picked up on the mud, altho in different ways (and I did not mention it). I remarked to My Lovely Spousal Unit that is seemed remarkably odd that whilst the Mobile Town and Track Construction Area was in a state of constant muck and mire, the entire rest of the territory (including previously laid track) was consistently dry and arid ... Once again a clear choice of "artistic license" over continuity   Roll Eyes

yhs

[Professor Marvel]

Howdy,
I was impressed by the large electric motor turning the circular saw mill saw used to square up the cross ties.
Regards

Colt

Ah My Dear Fanning -

I had not watched that far ... just more fuel for the fire I fear....

yhs
prof (now reading a book instead) marvel

[Major 2]

My Dear Dell & Major -

Dell - do give it try before deleting, perhaps you can get past the bad bits.... at least "Hell" is better than that oldy moldy "Sabata"

Major - I fear that I am oddly fixated upon the use of sledge hammers to dig dirt...    I fear that somehow that is just stuck in my poor little grey cells...

yhs
prof marvel

Prof...I was agreeing  ..... in the context  "I don't dig the show,  it pounds dirt "     

What they are doing, is called "Background Action" .... they are extras, most likely have no clue what to do,  handed a prop and they go through the motions, take after take .

I really tried to watch it... It just did not hold my attention ... sorry

[GunClick Rick]

If your gonna sledge,sledge.If your gonna dig, dig

Being an old road equipment operator i know they had horse drawn graders and big oak horse drawn water tanks to keep the streets level and dry when needed.I mean,if ya got a train~~~?

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Sounds like talking about HOW will not go far in this forum as there are too many nit-pickers.

Moderator, lock the thread... Suspension of disbelief is impossible for too many people on this forum.

[Professor Marvel]

Sounds like talking about HOW will not go far in this forum as there are too many nit-pickers.

Moderator, lock the thread... Suspension of disbelief is impossible for too many people on this forum.

My Dear Widowmaker -
Oh My Heavens, are you actually so opposed to a discussion that is not consistent with your opinion?

yhs
prof marvel