Movie gun? Streets of Laredo

[Doug.38PR]

Watching the mini series Streets of Laredo (the second sequel to Lonesome Dove) Randy Quaid is playing John Wesley Hardin. In the scene where he shoots the blacksmith it looks like he is handling and cleaning a nickle plated Schofield with a rounded grip.....and then, to my surprise, he appears to fire the gun double action when he shoots the fat blacksmith......has anybody figured this out?

Is it a Schofield or some other kind of gun? (A schofield would be more accurate as JWH did carry one late in life)

[MJN77]

It was a S&W double action frontier revolver. I have read that Hardin owned one of these too.

[Slowhand Bob]

Best I can figure, it is strictly TV cowboy story to prop up how tough the Capt's character was, his approach supposedly sent JWH a riding.  It looks to me as if Hardin stayed loyal to the Colt .44 Army revolver until his final capture and prison term.  If this is actually true then that would likely be the only model he used to commit all of his killings with.  To my knowledge all other guns that were linked to him were after his release from prison and the last documented man he killed was the Deputy that caused him to serve prison time. 

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[Doug.38PR]

AHHHH!  Never knew there was such a creature as a DA S&W Frontier.  Makes it almost like a Webley or Adams revolver.


Early in his....outlaw career...JWH I thought carried a Colt 1851 .36 Navy.  Killed his first couple of men with it.

[MJN77]

Hardin started off with a 1851 navy, then he moved to a 1860 army. The army is what he had on him when Texas Ranger John Armstrong captured him in Florida in 1877. After his release from prison on Febuary 17, 1894, he was said to have owned a S&W .44 American, .44 S&W DA frontier , 1877 Colt lightning, 1873 .45 Colt revolver, and a couple different types of deringers. He may have owned some or all of the above guns, I sure don't know, but that seems like a lot of hardware to aquire in the year and a half between his release and his death on August 19, 1895. Who knows what he actually owned.

[The Elderly Kid]

Keep in mind that McMurtry frequently uses real historical characters in his books that are very loosely based on reality, and isn't much concerned about guns (I know, this is about the movie, not the book). He is a "literary" rather than a "historical" novelist. I do love the books.

[MJN77]

Best I can figure, it is strictly TV cowboy story to prop up how tough the Capt's character was, his approach supposedly sent JWH a riding

Of course the movie plot is pure fiction. Heck the main bad guy even hangs Judge Roy Bean, which never happened. Bean died in bed in 1903. If I recall correctly, the story (Streets of Loredo) takes place in the 1890s, so it would've been after Hardin was released from jail. So it would've been possible for him to have the DA S&W.

[Jake MacReedy]

In R.L. Wilson's book, PEACEMAKERS, there is a photo on page 176 showing the S&W .44 Double Action Frontier revolver, serial #352, that Hardin was carrying the night he was shot be John Selman.

The only Schofield in "Streets of Laredo" that i remember seeing was the one being carried by Pea Eye Parker.  You can see him cleaning and reloading it when they are all sitting in Judge Roy Bean's saloon.

Jake

[Slowhand Bob]

I would have to go back and check but I think the first man he killed was a freed slave by the name of Mage and the gun used was a '60 Army model?  The very few references I remember from his Autobiography are references to the Army model being used during his killing years.  There actually seems to be much confusion amongst the people of the time as to which guns were used by which gunfighters, with at least two accounts by then famous individuals proclaiming that Hickock was known to prefer the Colt '60 Army.   Museums can actually add to the muddying of the waters, as in the case of Hardin, one might think that Hardin had used guns that did not exist when he was killing fokes.  Add in the stories of guys like Bat Masterson, who acknowledges that he sold many an old pawn shop gun as the one used during his career.  Ever wonder how many are in small museums and private collections with notes of awfulthenticity?

[MJN77]

Hardin was said to have started his "career" with a 1851 navy revolver, acquiring his 1860 later on.

[Slowhand Bob]

Ah, you made me look.  I did a quick scan of Hardins own book and skimmed several others that I knew had pictures of several guns supposedly with bonafide links to Hardin.  I actually find it odd that not one is a cap and ball pistol of any make and one would think that at least the one captured by the Rangers would have survived with some sort of verification.  Everything I find are those guns linked to the short life he lived after release from prison.  I have virtually nothing with second hand information so that falls back to his own words in THE LIFE OF JOHN WESLEY HARDIN  with byline (As Written By Himself).  I pretty much just scanned his early years, to about 1872 or so.

It was late in 1868 when he shot and killed Mase while visiting an uncles house.  He speaks of carrying "my pistol" on the trip there.  When he describes the shooting he further describes the gun as a "Colts .44 six-shooter".  He quickly goes on to describe victims two, three and four as being three soldiers serving as a posse to capture him very shortly later while he was hiding out.  He again relates to killing the men with this gun,  'when I brought him to ground with a bullet from my Colts .44."  I would assume that this was the same gun used to kill Mase, due to the tight time span in which these occurred but lacking further information this could relate to the Army model, the Walker or any one of several other Colts .44 Dragoon models.

Now for the glitch in his words and there are two that I noticed this morning.  In one place he refers to an event in which he was literally robbed and stripped during a game of poker.  Later that night after a spell of hiding from his tormentors he was able to obtain what he refers to as a Remington .45 to even the score.  On another occasion he speaks of killing a mans ox with a Colt .45 and both of these incidents occurred prior to the advent of the .45 Colt so I am left to wonder if he started using the terms .44 and .45 interchangeably?  On several occasions he speaks of using six-shooters or simply Colts pistols or in one case he uses the term cap and ball.  Up until around 1872 he has not mentioned using any caliber but .44 and .45 .

As mentioned earlier he was carrying a Colts .44 when he was finally captured by the rangers, ending his gun fighting career for good.  Of the guns related to him in his later years that I have links to, all are .41 caliber or larger.  I am sure there is a world of information that I do not have and I would love links to anything with bonafidaes.  For the most part I can only find generic references linking Hardin to any .36 Colt revolvers and most of these are usually cap and ball advertising.       

 

[Books OToole]

Keep in mind that McMurtry frequently uses real historical characters in his books that are very loosely based on reality, and isn't much concerned about guns (I know, this is about the movie, not the book). He is a "literary" rather than a "historical" novelist. I do love the books.

McMurtry has the aging the Woodrow Call take the trigger guard off of his Winchester do the swelling of his arthritic knuckles.

In my expert opinion;  that would turn it into a club.

His "real historical" characters only have a name in common with the originals.

Books

[Slowhand Bob]

I was not a big fan of 'Streets',  In this version of Calls later life he does not seem to walk near as tall as he did in in Lonesome Dove.  The LD portrayal was of a very quite man who actually seemed to impress the fearless Guss.   Lets face it, they portray a teeny bopper as much tougher and more capable in the ways south west wilderness fighting than an older man who has lived his life fighting those type fights against supposedly legendary outlaws and renegade Indians, har  har.   I have little doubt that Lonesome Doves rendition of Gus would have rode that pup into the ground and give him a good switching, but then, Gus walked carefully around that rendition of Capt Call also.  Funny but I actually got the impression that the women had also become more formidable than Call in this later version also, they really done a hack job on his stature in this one.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Keep in mind that McMurtry frequently uses real historical characters in his books that are very loosely based on reality, and isn't much concerned about guns (I know, this is about the movie, not the book). He is a "literary" rather than a "historical" novelist. I do love the books.

In the earlier book Comanche Moon, McMurtry mentions that the Rangers generally and Gus in particular were eager to adopt the latest weaponry.  In the movies, Lonesome Dove and Streets of Laredo, Gus use the same 'Ol anachronistic Colt Walker.

I wonder why McMurty never mentions whether Call or Gus ever served in the Mexican war where the Walker was issued to the Rangers?

[The Elderly Kid]

In LD McMurtry says Gus carries a Dragoon and has considered getting the newer, lighter Colt but never got around to it. I think he's implying that Gus and Call are getting old. When they were young pups they always wanted the newest thing, but now that they're aging they are reluctant to adopt anything unfamiliar so they stick with their outdated Dragoon and Henry. Sound like anyone we know?

[Cole Younger]

In the earlier book Comanche Moon, McMurtry mentions that the Rangers generally and Gus in particular were eager to adopt the latest weaponry.  In the movies, Lonesome Dove and Streets of Laredo, Gus use the same 'Ol anachronistic Colt Walker.

I wonder why McMurty never mentions whether Call or Gus ever served in the Mexican war where the Walker was issued to the Rangers?

It's been awhile since I read the books, but I had it in my mind that Gus and Call stayed in Texas and fought Injuns during the War, which is what they also did during the War Between the States. 

As was mentioned by The Elderly Kid, in the book, Gus carried a Dragoon.  In the mini-series, Gus perplexedly, carries a Walker on his belt and an 1860 Army on his saddle. 

Getting back to Hardin, he was known to have did one of his notorious killings in Commanche, Texas, with a 2nd Model American in the Russian caliber (1st Russian, model 3).   In later life, he carried two Colt Thunderer Double Actions in a shoulder holster.  He was known to be expert with these pistols. 

McMurtry isn't completely stupid about guns, but he only gets things about half right.  He seems to think the Henry to have been well-suited to Buffalo Hunting, for instance. 

[Slowhand Bob]

Jeeze Cole, he musta got the buffalo thing right, I saw it done many times.  Every time I watched DANCES WITH WOLVES, that is.  Could you be more specific on the Hardin shooting you mention, which one is being referenced?  I fear that much of the info on him comes straight from his Bio, or common legend, and specifics are hard to find.  Facts indicate that he killed no one else after the deputys murder that sent him to prison but some legends claim at least a few others were killed while he was in hiding, before his final capture???

[Russ McCrae]

McMurtry started Gus and Call after the Mexican war, "Dead Man's Walk" was loosely based on the Meir Expedtion and was the start of they're Ranger career. "Comanche Moon" was the 1850's Texas leading up to the civil war. Honestly I think the streets of Laredo book was about third at best and never understood why McMurtry even wrote it.

Someone pointed out Gus was still shooting a dragoon, well JWH was shooting a 1860 into the late 1870's so how's this a far a reach