I am new to this, Where do I start

[RR Ranger]

Alright, so I have been shooting frontier cartridge for a couple of years now and want to try my hand at longer range shooting. I love to shoot black powder and have purchased a Browning 1885 in 45/70 . I want to cast and load for this rifle and need to know where to start. I load pistol cartridges for .38 special and .45 colt and cast bullets for these also. I am looking for guidance on best bullet weight for this caliber and general information to get me started getting rounds downrange . I have not loaded rifle cartridges and need info on bullet diameter so I can order correct sizing die, best lube, cookie or no cookie, Fg, FFg , or FFFg. I have a supply of Goex FFFg , and couple pounds of FFg . What granulation works best?  Regular primers or magnum?

[mustanggt]

I've been shooting Sharps rifles for just two years but have learned alot from my mentor who got me started as well as guys over at the Shiloh forum and castboolits. Paul Matthews makes a whole series of books about shooting the BPCRs Mike Venturino has a great book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" and Venturino and Steve Garbe wrote "BP Cartridge Reloading Primer." I have two C. Sharps that both use a .459 grease groove bullet I cast from 20-1 lead/tin alloy. I started with a Lyman Postell bullet and graduated to a better quality mould from BACO (Buffalo Arms) a Creedmoor and Money bullet. I use Starline brass only, fire formed with zero neck tension and slip fit the bullet. I have a BACO neck expander in order to have no neck tension. I compress 75gr of 3F Swiss but am starting to work with 3F KIK powder so you'll need a compression die for that. SPG lube is what I use but there are a host of lube receipes out there that will work as well. You can punch your own wads out of plastics or cardboard material or buy some pre made wads such as Walters wads. WLR are my primers of choice. There are other guys who have sucess with other makes of components and materials. It's all about finding out what works for you. There is alot to be learned and I've found it fascinating about the history and the methods of loading and shooting from the 1800's till now.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Kinda struggling with this myself.  Really do not want to cast so I am working on finding a bullet and load the gun likes.  Have found several things the guns do not like. The current bullets are soft lead of bore diameter.  They will shoot about 4 min at 200 with smokeless.   They are all over the place with black powder, with and without over powder wad.   About to change to a bullet .001 or .002 over bore  diameter (Plan to test some of each).   Will test 65 - 75 grains Scheutzen with FFg and FFFg to see which works better.  Not sure if it will be significant but may vary the wads between using .062 veggie and Dr Pepper Case.  If I see a combination that starts to look good, may vary the charge up and down 1 - 3 grains to see if there is a difference.  May even test some 0 compression loads. 

Guess the thing is to vary one thing at a time.

Have also learned the chamber fouls with the first shot on my sharps.  All rounds neck sized chamber well clean, most will not chamber after a single round without cleaning the chamber.  Brushing chamber spotty for fixing, a wet swab does the job every time.

There is not a problem with the rolling block, think the lever on the breech lets me force the round into the chamber better.  Right now I am seating the bullets off the lands a bit maybe .005 to .010.  I might try right on the lands or actually let the bullet get engraved, if I can seat the round sufficiently with thumb pressure to close the sharps breech.  I just barely cover the 1st lube groove with the case mouth.  Do not really want the groove exposed.

I have not really been crimping the 70 grain load just removing the bell.  The 65 grain load the rifles did not like were crimped but did not have an over powder wad.  I may retest with an over powder wad at that charge level.  Some of this is pretty confusing some swear by crimping others swear that crimping not only is not necessary but could be detrimental.  It is all rather like Fords or Chevys.  Now days Toyota is in NASCAR, whats a guy to do?

Wonder if C Sharps or Shiloh puts more of a bevel on the breech block to force rounds into the chamber than on the Armi Sports.

I have not purchased a compression die yet so far seating the bullets where I have the standard Hornandy die I use to bell the case mouth compresses the powder to the correct depth to seat the bullet without over or under belling the case.  This could very well change when I change bullets.  Plan to order the die as part of my next Midway Order.

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[wildman1]

Anneal yer cases and ya wont get yer chambers dirty. WM

[cpt dan blodgett]

Had not thought of that.  Armi Sports are supposed to have long chambers which may contribute some.

Gots to find my torch I guess.  How deep do you keep your water?

[rbertalotto]

I recently reaquired a love affair with BPCR. I bought a Winchester 1885 BPCR with the Badger barrel and a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps Benchrest model. Both in 45-70

I had a Shiloh Sharps in 45-70 a few years back but I simply wasn't ready for the commitment as I was shooting lots of BR and HMSI.

So, With these two rifles I needed to cast my own bullets. Lots of info on the internet on this subject, but it all comes back to 500- 535g bull;ets perform best in both of these rifles. The less expensive way is to go with Lyman 457125 and 457132

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/select-mould-rifle.php?styleRef=cat19#anc

Black powder is the more fun, but I'm not a fan of the clean up so I'm using IMR 4759 and AA5744 with very good results.

The Pedersoli easily out shoots the Winchester. The Winchester has proved to be very finicky. Talking to others on various forums I'm hearing the same story. Hope your is better .

Recently I scoped both rifles.

I went with William Malcolm reproduction 3/4" tube scopes. my eyes just don't work well at 500 yds (the max range I have available for target shooting)

You can see my rifles here:
http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/things-that-go-bang/

And a few articles here:
www.rvbprecision.com

Have fun! 

[rbertalotto]

A major league update on my last post in this thread.............

Back in October when I penned it, I was a fool........now I've seen the light!

I've come over to the dark side.....FFg is my friend......I fear no inaccuracy!

I also picked up a Pedersoli Rolling Block since October.

The Rolling Block now wears its Pedersoli tang sight and a Lyman #17 front globe. With Black Powder, 535 grain Lyman #457125 out of RotoMetal Lyman #2 this thing is holding them under 4" at 200 yards for 5 shots with three usually touching!

My Winchester HighWall is finally turning into a target rifle with the same load. I'm so impressed with the performance of tang and globe that I ordered a Lee Shaver and a Lyman #20 for the Winchester. I'll leave the scope on the Sharps for "Rock Shooting" and hunting (for now).

So thee it is, go black........it certainly proved the better for me.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Howdy RR Ranger,

Since rbertalotto resurrected this thread might I ask how you're doing with your 1885 High Wall?

My BPCR Page is a log of my journey as a brand new shooter with my Winchester(Browning) 1885 in 45/70.

I turned off my computer and put my phone on busy....I'm going to the range tomorrow to play!

-Willy

[rbertalotto]

Wagon Box....What a fantastic Web Site....THANK YOU for taking the time to do all that work!

And it appears we are relative neighbors! We need to get together and do some shooting, casting, talking, etc.

We have lots in common. (Photography, Woodworking, Guns)  Check out my web page www.rvbprecision.com

I'm just getting my Winchester BPCR to the point where I'm guesing it will be a keeper. Still no way near as accurate as my Sharps or Rolling Block, but it's coming along. After looking at the way your bullets look after they a engaged into the rifling, I'm convinced I'm going to rechamber my barrel with a reamer made off the Sharps/Rolling Block chamber. A much more gradual entry into the lands.

I love the idea you have for the "Vibratory Drop Tube"...Brilliant!

And thanks for all the great sources..........Some of them I've not heard of before.

I plan on attending some of the long range Buffalo shoots up in NH this year as well as the shoots held in RI...Maybe we'll bump into each other. I'll buy the coffee!

[PJ Hardtack]

RRR

I have become a believer in annealing and getting pretty good at it. Makes brass last longer.

My 'Farmer' 45-70 demands full length re-sizing. It's got a tight chamber compared to my other 45-70s (Browning, H&R) and I'm happy to accomodate it. Mike Venturino also FL sizes, so I'm in good company.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Wagon Box....What a fantastic Web Site....THANK YOU for taking the time to do all that work!

And it appears we are relative neighbors! We need to get together and do some shooting, casting, talking, etc.

We have lots in common. (Photography, Woodworking, Guns)  Check out my web page www.rvbprecision.com

I'm just getting my Winchester BPCR to the point where I'm guesing it will be a keeper. Still no way near as accurate as my Sharps or Rolling Block, but it's coming along. After looking at the way your bullets look after they a engaged into the rifling, I'm convinced I'm going to rechamber my barrel with a reamer made off the Sharps/Rolling Block chamber. A much more gradual entry into the lands.

I love the idea you have for the "Vibratory Drop Tube"...Brilliant!

And thanks for all the great sources..........Some of them I've not heard of before.

I plan on attending some of the long range Buffalo shoots up in NH this year as well as the shoots held in RI...Maybe we'll bump into each other. I'll buy the coffee!

Roy,

Thanks.  I have been to your site a few times in the past, I think it was your post of a beautiful rolling block which first led me there.  I love the shooting table by the way.

UPDATE:  I was up late last night so I thought I'd move my site over to Blog format, I figured that since I'm using it as a chronology of events the Blog format will be easier to follow.  The new url is BPCR1885.net


I hope to get to a few Cowboy as well as long range shoots this year so maybe we will bump into each other.  I do want to get to Major Waldron Sportsmen's Assoc in Barrington, NH some Saturday for some long range shooting though it is quite a drive for me (isn't everything).  The club I just joined which is only about 40 min away is putting in a 600 yd range this year so I'm excited about that.  Hopefully I'll get myself sorted out to where I can hit the target and have some long range fun.

See ya round
  Willy