Rifles and Revolvers

[Tascosa Joe]

Sure enough.  I dont care for the sights.  But way cool.

[ol coot]

  In 1855 Colt brough out a 56 cal. black powder revolving carbine call the Root.
  Side oiler 20inch bl. wern't real populer but some did makeit out west by1857.
                       coot

[Jake MacReedy]

Ol' Coot,

You can get a /45 Caliber replica of that Colt Root Model 1855 rifle from Dixie Gun works, but it will set you back $2100!

Jake

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

I.m not a member of the plainsman society, but this sounds like a fun thread. I am a Living historian. Mexican war military.
So for the scenario, Los Angeles, 1850. Recently left the service. Arms: 1842 Patterson .36, 1842 Musket .69, .50 Caliber Plains Rifle,
hand made Bowie, 1840 Officer's Saber. I'd like to see more Angelenos involved.

[buffalo bill]

Col. Havoc,
              Why not send your contact info to Caleb Hobbs and join TAPS? All it takes is to be a member is the desire to do so. Just a thought. The Mexican War falls exactly in our time frame.

'SCOUTIN' for SHAGGIES'

BUFFALO BILL

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Col Havoc.  I have a great interest in the Dragoons especially the one in California.  One of my favorite stops when going North/South is Ft Tejon.  My drive way goes down hill and makes a sharp left turn.  At that spot is Dragoon Gulch where a group of Dragoons were camped during the 1850's and were the local authority during the Gold Rush here in Sonora, California.

As Buffalo Bill said, sign up because the Dragoons were a major part of our era and we look forward to sharing of the knowledge.

[Jake MacReedy]

Col. Havoc, I join the above pards in welcoming you to The American Plainsmen Society!  Please do sign up, sir!

Jake

[Caleb Hobbs]

Colonel Havoc:

I'll add my two centavos here and encourage you to join The American Plainsmen Society. It would be great to have members who are interested in the Dragoon period -- even if they have just left the service. I'd also like to see more folks join who have an interest in early California history. We already have a few members from Central California, but I know there are a lot of others who post on CASCity who represent this period. Get enough together and we could have our first regional event.

Caleb

[Oregon Bill]

Wow, lots to catch up on on a snowy day along the Applegate Trail ...
I'm drawn to  the 1841 Mississippi as a very useful rifle well rooted in the period. Another fascinating rifle is the Wesson boxlock. The actions are available but you'll have to have a smith build the whole rifle. Here is a shot of the butt end of one supposedly carried by Texas Ranger Jack Hayes circa 1849. Note the lollipop tank rear sight:



Years ago, I served as the guest firearms curator for the Southern Oregon Historical Society, which has an extensive collection of original firearms from the 1840s-1890s. There was a tremendous amount of variation among the "Plains rifles" in terms of caliber, barrel length and thickness, conventional lock vs. back-action lock, etc. Unfortunately, owing to financial difficulties the firearms collection is in storage.

Regarding rules, my take is basically "PRAISE BE TO GOD WE AREN'T INTO FASTEST TIMES," from which a whole host of negative issues would be likely to spring. Honestly, back in the day, your shot had to be accurate to tell.
I would also like to see continuing flexibility on the arms required; too many folks get discouraged having to buy two pistols and rifle and a shottie right out of the gate, and if you surveyed every wagon on the Oregon Trail circa 1862, I'll bet you'd find very few that had this arsenal under the hemp canvas ...

[Tsalagidave]

I agree.  Although I have seen a lot of documentation of individuals traveling the plains with a host of pistols, carbines, shotguns and rifles, the most common among immigrants appear to be flint and percussion rifles or shotguns and a hunting knife.

I saw a mention of the Colt Root rifles from Dixie for $2100.  Buyer beware, these are from the (now defunct) Palmetto Arms in Italy (not to be confused with Palmetto Arms LLC of S. Carolina). The Italian Roots are of notoriously bad quality and Dixie actually pulled the shooter reviews at one time because they were such hunks of junk. If Pietta made the Colt Root rifle, I'd be interested but I haven't heard anything good about the shooting performance of the 1855 Root repops.

-Dave

[captmack]

This is my brace for early period, Texas Revolution era.

[Oregon Bill]

This is my foundational gear, an 1841 Mississippi, .54 caliber; Second Model Dragoon; bag and horn; Jefferson bootees. Long trail ahead though ...

[Tsalagidave]

Capt Mac, I like the look of your shooting bag and patch knife.  Any chance of a close up of it? Also, what's in it? I never get tired of checking out other shooter's kits.

Oregon Bill, that is some serious firepower you have there. I'm jealous, and I want a .54 US Yeager Rifle too.

-Dave

[Tsalagidave]

Since everyone else is showing their 1840-50s stuff, I figured I would also.
My main gun is a .54 Cal full-stocked plains rifle with squared "haversack"-styled shooting bag. My second gun (for the packhorse) is a 20ga./.62 southern mountain gun that is smoothbore and great for picking off small game but it will put a patched .610 ball pretty close to the mark at 75 yards regularly. The pack is more of a traditional 1770s era eastern woodlands pattern.  In addition to that, I have a brace of navy sixes. (I usually carry only one when I am out on the trail.) The Colt pocket is a fun little backyard plinker but other than winning knife fights, it would not be my first choice for border warfare.

-Dave

[Oregon Bill]

Dang, Dave, more swell gear! How long you been doin' this?

 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I bought a Pedersoli Scout .50 Caliber cap 'n' ball rifle and am thinking that it would be the perfect rifle to use as a poor 1862 cavalry private ... something he might have brought in with him from home ... I am told it would not work for that purpose 'cause it is a cutdown 'Pennsylvania' style rifle ... any thoughts

[Caleb Hobbs]

Hello, Wad:

Good question. The governing body had been working on what is correct and what isn't, but unfortunately we let things slide as we got into fall and people started gearing up for winter. As you can imagine, it's a slow process even under the best of conditions, since so many firearms from this period could be locally made.

Just remember that what we're trying to create is a group with an emphasis on historical accuracy. Not one hundred percent, but better than the average rendezvous or some of the cowboy shoots, where you can see a wide range of non-PC outfits. Think Level-One NCOWS, or what the folks at GAF are trying to accomplish.

You're right in that your rifle is shorter than the norm, but the basic silhouette is that of a Kentucky (or Pennsylvania, the difference is slight). If you showed up at an American Plainsmen Society match or encampment with it, I'd allow it. Especially for a woman or youngster.

What we're trying to stay away from is the Thompson Center or CVA or Cabela's Hawkens, which are no closer to an actual Hawkens rifle than a Henry Big Boy is to an original Henry. The Lyman Great Plains rifle or the Pedersoli Kentucky rifles are acceptable; the Traditions Kentucky rifle with its brass band connecting a two-piece stock isn't.

I'll also add that the governing body is in agreement that we need to give new members one year to get their basic outfit together. Hopefully within the next month or so we can have a list of correct guns available and posted.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I am thinking that I will run into this big windfall that allows me to get an L Romano Maynard ... something that was issued to the Confederate Cavalry at one time ... but at $1K just to to get on the list and $3K more upon completion, I don't see it happening tomorrow ....

But if I end up buying something new, I want a breechloader ... and the Maynard seems to be the only breechloader that could be reoladed and carried by a lowly Confederate enlisted guy .... and I understand that the Model 1 Maynards were issued to some Confederate Cavalry .... just very few in Florida .... sigh

[Jed Cooper]

   I have been thinking about our future, and it looks good! Wonder what everybody thinks about guns for shoots once we start getting together (postal or in person). Period correct rifle is a given but 1 pistol ?, 2 pistols ?, scattergun ? Most Plainsmen probably wouldn't have bothered with a scattergun. Distances on the Plains are too great. However, this time also includes wagon train emmigrants  and '49ers both of which could have carried shotguns. Carrying 2 pistols (or more) was a common practice with cap and ball revolvers but the more guns we require, the more we become like the other groups. Since we are NOT timing ourselves, it gives us more latitude when it comes to reloading.This levels the playing field between revolvers and single shot pistols. I like that. It becomes more realistic and historically accurate. This also allows a person to carry the firearms that he feels is appropriate for his personna and still be able to compete. Another bonus!
   Also, I realize that we are The American Plains---'MEN' Society. Does that mean that we are a 'men only' group or do we include any woman who wants what we want from the sport. Personally, I believe that we should include anyone regardless of sex to join as long as they are willing to strive for the levels of authenticity that the rest of us seek. In fact, our time period was the era when non-native women began arriving in the West in numbers. This would also allow family involvement, again keeping authenticity levels in mind.
   I am sure many of you feel the same way but if not let's discuss the pro's and con's of these issues. My only concern is that we remain dedicated to the concept of HISTORIC ACCURACY. We all want to have fun but we should not sacrifice authenticity ito do so. I don't want to sound like a Thread-counting  Nazi. I just believe that it is easier (and cheaper in the long run ) to do the research and do things right the first time. Too often I have seen the "it's close enough" and "if they had it they would have used it" mind set ruin a good thing. I don't want TAPS to fall into it.
   I don't want to offend anyone or seem 'elitist'. The farthest thing from my mind. I just figure if we are going to do this, we might as well do it right. Thanks fer listening.

"SCOUTIN' for SHAGGIES"

BUFFALO BILL

I never understood men/ woman Shooting classes. The ladies are not at a physical disadvantage shooting..    Dave

[buffalo bill]

Jed,
  I am not sure what you are getting at. In the first place, that post was a long time ago when this group was forming. Secondly, I didn't say anything regarding "men/women" shooting classes. I was actually commenting on how historically correct it is for TAPS to include women. Lastly, TAPS doesn't have shooting classes. At least not yet. I would like to think that when we do reach that point, men and women would shoot side by side. Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

 "SCOUTIN' for SHAGGIES"

  BUFFALO BILL

[Caleb Hobbs]

Jed:

Welcome to The American Plainsmen Society. I look forward to your input on the board.

I agree with you and Bill both -- women don't need a separate class. They need to toe the line with everyone else, and the best man, woman, or youngster wins the beans. I'm putting together a postal match that I should have added to the forum this week that will be open to all members.

Will either of you be at the fall encampemnt this October? There are going to be some good matches and great times.

Caleb

EDITED: My mistake, the encampment and shoot will be September 20-23.

[Tsalagidave]

Thanks Bill,

I've been doing this for over 20 years. Here's a close up of the Bag and guns.

[Quickdraw]

Fellers,
This sounds like what I've been lookin for! With SASS you really couldn't shoot BP---took to long to make up cartridges.

With shootin muzzleloaders, theres no problem! Have 2 cap n ball Remingtons, and a Mississippi rifle. Would like to get a good plains rifle instead.

Where is this get together gointa be? Sounds like fun!!

[Caleb Hobbs]

Quickdraw:

The 2012 Encampment and Shoot is going to be held in Eastern Kansas this year, the latter part of September. Check out the thread at the top of the Plainsmen page for more details. Hope to see you there.

Caleb

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,


Because I do so much reenacting, I am ready for anything from about 1810-1900...

1810- 1850s: Pedersoli Scout and Lyman Plains Pistol ... both percussion





1851- mid 1870s: Pedersoli Scout/ASM 51 Colt/'58 Pietta Remington





Mid 1870s -1900: Pair of Schofields/1887 Winchester Lever Shotgun/'73 Winchester