1911 Pattern Pack

[mtgelaude]

Outrider, I live in California, and it has to do with not having an internal safety.  The Department of Justice has a list of Handguns that are legal in California, and it is not on the list.  SImilar guns are, but that model is not.  Now, if anybody here has contrary info, I would like ot hear about it.

[Blackey Cole]

Will, I like them all, you're tooling is great.  I like the Three Person's the most far as looks.  I have a holster similar to #4 the military 1911 model I think but mine uses a wire hanger for canvas belts and a leather hanger for the wire loop for leather belts if you would like I would send it to you for comparisons.  While on this holster where did you get the swivel use at?  Now I really like #5 for carrying but would not consider it a pancake holster since it is folded and is fastened to the back piece somehow.  Now I wish I was as talented as you are.  I do not wish to get us reprimanded for taking about modern leather here.

I also, have a leather pouch similar to what you are describing for the period mag pouch if you would like for me to send it I can.

[outrider]

Nothing personal...but I think California is really going (or is already gone) to the pits....I can't believe some of the garbage they make you go through....

[will ghormley]

Hey Blackey,

The swivel comes from the early cavalry holsters of 1911-1912.  It isn't a copy of the early holsters because I wanted a pattern folks could make without buying specialty hardware.  For that reason, I've avoided using wire loops or lift-a-dot post snaps.  It wouldn't be difficult for someone to modify the belt loop to go around a wire hanger.  Then you would have something that looks just like a photo in a collectors gallery of an early "civilian purchase" that was used in WWI.

I haven't started on the mag pouches yet, but will soon.  I don't need any patterns for those.  What I come up with will be more along the lines of the early leather military pouches, but without the military hardware.  They will be easily modified for those who wish to do the competitive "thing".

Thanks everyone for your kind offers of help, your encouragement, and feedback.  They have all helped to shape the direction of this pattern pack.

Will

[Dalton Masterson]

Will,
Got my box back today. Thank YOU!!!!
DM

[Blackey Cole]

Will, I understand that is where the idea came from my intent was where does one purchase the swivel sorry for the confusion.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

     Outrider, you're absolutely right, I'm born and raised here in California, and it's gone to the dogs, I can't wait to get out of here, hopefully by next years if I'm lucky

 
          tEN wOLVES   

[outrider]

Will,

Got my box today...much appreciated but not necessary.  Thank you..   If time allows and the weather is good we might get a chance to see you during our upcoming trip to Iowa in December

[will ghormley]

Hey Blackey,

I didn't do an internet search to look for the swivels.  What I did was skive down both the front and the back of the leather sewn to the pouch, where it swivels.  Then, I took a 1" round punch and punched out 1" disks.  I punched those in the center with a round punch that would allow a #9 copper rivet to swing freely.

I used a 1" #9 copper rivet, passed it through one 1" leather washer, through the front of the belt loop, through the leather sewn to the pouch, through the back of the belt loop, and through a 1" leather washer.  With the thickness of the leather, the post of the rivet doesn't need to be trimmed.

I peened-down the post over the copper burr, but not so tight it wouldn't swing.

With the rivet running through the belt loop on both sides of the holster leather, it shouldn't tear out near as fast as the military swivels that have the holsters attached at the outside of the wire hanger leathers.

Not militarily correct, but it is simple and gets the job done.

Hey Outrider,

If I thought it was necessary, I probably wouldn't have done it.  I just appreciate your efforts and wanted you to know.

Will

[outrider]

Will,

Appreciate the friendship

Ten Wolves...there's lots of roomhere in Tenn.   come on down

[Slowhand Bob]

Outrider, you have been a good friend to me and always willing to step forward and for this I thank you.  You sir are a cowboy.  I received my 'Christmas in September' package from Will and consider his latest patterns to be even better than his earlier work.  Guys, just be sure that if you order the WG conchos not to drop one on your toe, these are not the cheap leather craft store fare, these are heavy.  Now to save up for those two custom stamps.

[Dalton Masterson]

Bob,
Those stamps are very nice to have. I havent used them a lot, but when I do use them, they look great.

Will,
How long do you think it will be on the 1911 pack? I have a few people in mind for some Christmas presents from this.

Thanks,
DM

[will ghormley]

Hey Dalton,

I've been slavin' away workin' long hours to get it wrapped up, off to the printers, for distribution through TLF, (Tandy Leather Factory).  I'm still probably two weeks from gettin' it all on paper to be scanned, and that's optimistic.  Two to three months from when I send it off to the printers, (depending on the printer's schedule and how fast TLF can get it distributed).

But, bein' a one-man-shop, there are always unforeseen events that can slow stuff down.  Take the bike accident I had two weeks ago.  My friends have been tellin' me, "Will, you're too old to be jumpin' your mountain bike down a flight of stairs!"  And I keep tellin' 'em, "No, I'm plenty young enough to jump my bike down a flight of stairs.  I'm just too old to wreck the stunt."

Then there is my vintage, collectors item, 1987 2500 GMC Suburban that I took the train to Utah to buy, (the truck of my dreams, the last vehicle I will every buy).  It still needs a fresh coat of paint and undercoating before it can survive a winter of salt here on the arctic plains of Ioway country, (it has no rust bein' a western truck).  But, my bike stunt has left me a week behind on the sanding and priming because I couldn't function properly.  The good news is, now it is all sanded down to the metal and primed.  Next step is the mil spec flat desert sand paint job, (with flat white Normandy "Invasion Stars" painted on the doors, back barn doors, and hood).  Then it is good-to-go for it's first winter here in the frozen tundra.  Next year will be the custom full-length luggage rack, spare tire rack, jerry can rack, military bumpers, and winch. Can you say, "Most awe inspiring off-road, adventure vehicle ever!?"  It's all manual and factory stripped, (it doesn't even have floor coverings, AC, power windows, or a headliner), so there is little to break down or need maintenance.  Like I always say, "You can live in your Suburban, but you can't drive your house to work!"

So, if everything goes well, (and in my world that is always a very big "if"), you may have the patterns in time to work night and day to get everything done for the blessed season of our Lord's birth.  But, since you are waiting on it, I will redouble my efforts and try to speed things along.

Will

[Dalton Masterson]

No hurry Will. I would rather you have some enjoyment working on your truck some too! I have to get my 63 Galaxie weatherstrip job finished before winter too, so I know how that goes.
And stairs and bikes. Been there, would do it again....but faster.
DM

[Blackey Cole]

Will, sorry the leather washer and a quick glance made me think it was an original style swivel.  I can not wait to get this pattern.  I plan on doing some Wild Bunch leather here soon to replace the "Big Store" stuff that I have.  For Cowboy I made everything except two items on my belt the holsters(Long Hunter Custom order Plain Black) and the Cap pouch.  I need to make some more ammo pouches since I sold my last one that had a belt clip instead of belt loops. 

For Wild Bunch I wish to make a new belt with the 1911 buckle then the holster.  Follow that by the 5 Round 45 and 5 Round 12Ga loops on a slide.  Then the Mag pouches.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Those paramilitary holsters are really good. I particularly like the swivel holster. You captured the look beautifully. Thumbs-up.

[will ghormley]

Well, I re-worked the "pancake" holster, (yeah I know it's not a true "pancake", but I'm too lazy to make up a new name for it),  before I got what I wanted, (three times it took me!).

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/1911.html

The close-up inset photo is of how I recessed the female snap into the 4-5 oz. leather liner so it would be less likely to touch the finish of the pistol.  The holster itself is 9-10 oz. leather with the 4-5 oz. liner, makin' it a pretty heavy-duty holster.  I went with the lining so the snaps on the thumb release, (a modern design feature), wouldn't wear on the pistol's finish.

I'm also re-designing the Pancho holster, (the holster with the skirt), to fit over a three inch belt, and widened the skirt by a quarter inch on each side.  There will also be a straight-hang version of the Pancho in the pattern pack.

I'm also re-designing the Tom Threepersons-style holster to make it a little more secure.

I need to add the para-military tanker's rig and the mag pouches and that'll be this pattern pack.  I may have to make another 1911 pattern, or even, (I can't believe I'm sayin' this!), a modern holster pattern pack that'll fit more than just the 1911.  I can't stand the idea of makin' holsters for them plastic play guns!  But, I need to raise money to buy me an old house in a little town where my family will be safe.  I don't want to be in the capital city when everything falls to pieces next year.

Will

[Dalton Masterson]

Wow Will. You have been busy.
They all still look great! I cant wait for the pack to be done!

Sadly, the modern plasticy type guns are what I have been making the most of right now. I would gladly take a pattern pack for them too. I have several blue guns I could loan you if needed, as well.

DM

[Arizona Cattleman]

I'm with you Will, thats why I live where I live now.  Just a hop skip and a jump from the uninhabited desert.  Would like to see a verision of the 1911 that rides high  on the belt for CCW.  Your decision, but that last one is so beautiful.  I would like one of the pattern packs  when they are done.  Keep us advised.

AC

[will ghormley]

Hey AC,

That fake "pancake" could actually ride higher by moving the pouch up.  I hadn't even thought about that till you mentioned it.  I can add a different set of attachment lines so the holster can be sewn on higher up on the belt plate.  Great idea!

Will

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre]

Hey AC,

That fake "pancake" could actually ride higher by moving the pouch up.  I hadn't even thought about that till you mentioned it.  I can add a different set of attachment lines so the holster can be sewn on higher up on the belt plate.  Great idea!

Will

You could probably even mount t-nuts as anchors for the pancake in the holster, and have several sets of holes to mount the paddle on. Or even different types of attatchments, (belt loop, paddle, etc).

[Blackey Cole]

Will, great work I will be picking up the pack when you finish it myself even if it is two different packs.  I also have several blue guns I could loan you.  Taurus 24/7 & Springfield XD.

[will ghormley]

Thanks for the offers of the blue gun guys.  I may take you up on it.  I really don't know what sort of simi-autos are floatin' around out there.  I would probably have to go with a "large" holster and a "small" holster and make 'em gun buckets.  Or, I could have one style of holster modified for several different kinds of guns.  We'll just have to see...

TLF has expressed an interest in my moc patterns if I can reconfigure them to what they want to sell.  I think I can swing it and have three more patterns ready to go to market pretty fast.  But, first I have to get through this 1911 project.  It has been somethin' of a struggle adaptin' my thought process from wheel-guns to the 1911.  They just ain't build the same.  It seems that every pattern I have to take at least two runs at it before I get it right.  Oh well, I should be an expert by the time I get the pattern pack done.

Will

[Slowhand Bob]

Will, all of us really have so many ideas on this project but I fear you may have to step back and think about reducing how much one can reasonably offer in a single pattern pack at a reasonable price.  From what I have seen of your military prototype, I think that it is a winner and would sell more than a correct copy ever could.  The correct copy is fun for something informal, for such as the guys here but just such a tiny market elsewhere.  I also think your idea of going to a 'modern generic' set of patterns as an alternative to staying with the 1911.  This would be an untouched market filled with so many guns not covered by the pattern packs of the old school.  Good luck.

[knucklehead]

Will, I have been following this thread with great interest.
If tandy does not want these patterns I hope you will offer them on your website.

I personally like "The Frazier" style the best. this one would also look great with some floral or oakleaf toolling.

just sitting here waiting for the patterns to be available but its hard. im chomping at the bit to get these patterns