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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  Shooter's Meeting (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Camille Eonich, Texas Lawdog)  |  Topic: How do I ship a gun to myself???? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: How do I ship a gun to myself????  (Read 6312 times)
Bugscuffle
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« on: July 29, 2011, 02:35:36 pm »


My two revolvers and I got separated by about 1,200 miles. Don't even ask, it's too long a story. But anyway, I am back home in Texas and my revolvers are in North Carolina. How do I have them shipped to me legally without going through the $25.00 NICS check transfer B.S. and how can I transfer them to myself anyway?
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August
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 04:48:55 pm »

Proceed very carefully.

1) Whomever is now in possession of them has them illegally since you cannot transfer a firearm to a citizen of another State.

2) You can drive back and get them.

3) YOU can ship them to an FFL in your home State.  Not sure how you can be in both places at once, but new technology emerges all the time.  

4) Perhaps you left them with an FFL licensed gunsmith, who could legally send them to you.

5) Federal prison is not a place you wanna be (I'm told).

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John Smith
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 07:36:03 pm »

My two revolvers and I got separated by about 1,200 miles. Don't even ask, it's too long a story. But anyway, I am back home in Texas and my revolvers are in North Carolina. How do I have them shipped to me legally without going through the $25.00 NICS check transfer B.S. and how can I transfer them to myself anyway?

What $25.00 NICS check transfer?  Since you aren't in NC, you can't ship them to yourself.  Probabbly easiest way would be for whoever has them to go to a local FFL and ship them to your local FFL who can then transfer them to you.  Probably cost at least $100.
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Jefro
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 10:15:51 pm »

Since you aren't in NC, you can't ship them to yourself.  Probabbly easiest way would be for whoever has them to go to a local FFL and ship them to your local FFL who can then transfer them to you.  Probably cost at least $100.
Yep, this would be the easiest. However whoever has them could ship them by contract carrier to an FFL in your state, but they would have much less of a hassel to just take them to an FFL in NC. Plus the FFL on your end must agree to recieve the firearms from an indvidual. Any FFL I know that does this requires a bill of sale and copy of drivers license from the sender. One reason to use the FFL to FFL method is, should anything happen like damage or loss, an FFL can get instant results from the carrier, where as the poor ole individual is in for a long row to hoe Cry. Good Luck
ATF FAQ

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]



Jefro Cheesy Relax-Enjoy
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 10:27:46 pm »

When I go to UPS, (actual UPS terminal, not one of those "we ship UPS" contract stores) I ship a gun to whomever, and they don't ask for ID.

Soooo if I went in and said "My name is John Smith, I need to send these guns to my other residence." The feller would ask my address here and there, and that would be that.

I probably could even generate the required shipping ticket online if I opened an online UPS account, then I'd just have to present the box, all ready to go, at the UPS terminal.

Now, if lets say I wanted to ship a fishing reel from NC to NY, and I had such an account, I could generate a "from me, to me" ticket, MAIL it to somebody, and they could take it to UPS.

Not advocating anything, just making observations based on what I know.
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 11:22:53 pm »

I don't know about you, but I most likely cannot find the sales receipts for all the guns I've collected over the years.  So for me requiring a sales receipt before transfering weapons going thru an FFL holder is rediculous.  PROVE they aren't mine!

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John Smith
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2011, 07:49:47 am »

When I go to UPS, (actual UPS terminal, not one of those "we ship UPS" contract stores) I ship a gun to whomever, and they don't ask for ID.

Soooo if I went in and said "My name is John Smith, I need to send these guns to my other residence." The feller would ask my address here and there, and that would be that.

I probably could even generate the required shipping ticket online if I opened an online UPS account, then I'd just have to present the box, all ready to go, at the UPS terminal.

Now, if lets say I wanted to ship a fishing reel from NC to NY, and I had such an account, I could generate a "from me, to me" ticket, MAIL it to somebody, and they could take it to UPS.

Not advocating anything, just making observations based on what I know.

Before you ship that "fishing reel" you might want to read what "Quinn" was convicted of in this article:  http://www.ledgernews.com/news/503-march-17-2010/1722-three-canton-residents-sentenced-in-federal-gun-trafficking-case
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2011, 09:40:44 am »

I would contact someone with an FFL that I knew that I could trust and ask them the answer to this question.  I don't think that, since you already own the guns, that they need to be shipped to an FFL holder but it does sound as though, since you are in a different state, that an FFL holder would be needed to ship the guns to you.


Where in NC are the guns?  I know a couple of people with FFLs here that may be able to help out.
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John Smith
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2011, 11:07:06 am »

I would contact someone with an FFL that I knew that I could trust and ask them the answer to this question.  I don't think that, since you already own the guns, that they need to be shipped to an FFL holder but it does sound as though, since you are in a different state, that an FFL holder would be needed to ship the guns to you.


Where in NC are the guns?  I know a couple of people with FFLs here that may be able to help out.

Regardless of the "ownership" since they are crossing state lines, they must go to a FFL in the receiving state.  Easiest and cheapest way would be from FFL to FFL.  And yes, when he goes to pick them up, he will have to fill our a 4473 ("yellow sheet") and get a NICS check.
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Jamie
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011, 11:36:30 am »

I'm assuming these are cartridge firing revolvers and not cap and ball?  I believe c+b would be no sweat, but even then it would pay to check to make sure.
Jamie
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Bugscuffle
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 01:10:01 pm »

     Thank you all for your input. Here is what I found out from ATFB. Yes, I still own the revolvers. In North Carolina a rifle can be "gifted", but a pistol or revolver cannot be "gifted". The person (my daughter) that has them now is merely holding them for me. This is legal. A non licenced person cannot send a modern firearm, rifle, pistol or shotgun, to another non licenced person in another state except in the case that if the person receiving the firearm is a licenced gunsmith.
      So, here is what I will do. I will have my Daughter send the revolvers to a licenced gunsmith here in Texas. One that was recommended on this forum. The gunsmith will then do action jobs on both revolvers and send them to me at my home here in Texas, also legal. The cost will be about $340 total, about what it would cost to fly to N.C. and pick them up myself, but I'll end up with a lifetime supply of really nice revolvers.
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2011, 03:46:12 pm »

Done this several times. Straight from the BATFE website:

Quote
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
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Camille Eonich
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 04:11:36 pm »

Regardless of the "ownership" since they are crossing state lines, they must go to a FFL in the receiving state.  Easiest and cheapest way would be from FFL to FFL.  And yes, when he goes to pick them up, he will have to fill our a 4473 ("yellow sheet") and get a NICS check.


I said this because it is perfectly legal for a gunsmith to ship a gun back to the person that owns the gun after repairing it.  The guns does not have to be shipped back to an FFL holder.

Quote
ATF Forms 4473
You must obtain a completed Firearms Transaction Record (Form 4473) for each and every sale or other transfer of a firearm to a non-licensee. It is your responsibility to ensure that each Form 4473 is completed correctly in accordance with the instructions on the form. The correct completion of these forms enhances traceability of firearms.
Correctly completing ATF Forms 4473 is one of the most important things you can do to ensure that ATF can trace crime guns.
This form must be completed when you:
sell or trade a firearm;1.
return a consignment firearm;2.
return a pawned firearm;3.
loan or rent a firearm for use off of your licensed 4. premises; or

otherwise transfer a firearm to a non-licensed person.5.
Note: You must transfer the firearm to the person who completed the Form 4473 and NOT to a spouse, relative, or other representative of that person.



Exceptions to the ATF Form 4473 Requirement:
You are not required to obtain a Form 4473 for the following sales and other transfers:
Transfer of a firearm to another FFL (including 1. collectors when transferring a Curio & Relic firearm);
The return of a repaired firearm to the person from 2. whom it was received;
The sale of a firearm to a law enforcement agency 3. or to a law enforcement officer for official duties if the transaction meets the requirements of 27 CFR § 478.134, discussed on pages 7 and 8; or
Transfer of a replacement firearm of the same 4. kind and type to the person from whom a firearm was received.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-15.pdf


And it is perfectly legal for for someone to ship a firearm to an FFL holder in another state.


Quote
Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an 'unlicensed person'. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.

The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.aspx?faqid=1118
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 04:13:28 pm »

     Thank you all for your input. Here is what I found out from ATFB. Yes, I still own the revolvers. In North Carolina a rifle can be "gifted", but a pistol or revolver cannot be "gifted". The person (my daughter) that has them now is merely holding them for me. This is legal. A non licenced person cannot send a modern firearm, rifle, pistol or shotgun, to another non licenced person in another state except in the case that if the person receiving the firearm is a licenced gunsmith.
      So, here is what I will do. I will have my Daughter send the revolvers to a licenced gunsmith here in Texas. One that was recommended on this forum. The gunsmith will then do action jobs on both revolvers and send them to me at my home here in Texas, also legal. The cost will be about $340 total, about what it would cost to fly to N.C. and pick them up myself, but I'll end up with a lifetime supply of really nice revolvers.


Thanks for the follow up.   Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 05:57:12 pm »

Call the ATF and ask them.

Because of difficult airline issues, hunters and target shooters are shipping rifles, shotguns and pistols to the place they are going to hunt , shoot, etc  (Guide , outfitter, etc) and then having the guide or outfitter send the firearms back to them after they have finished the hunt and left for home.

As far as I know this is perfectly legal and no FFL needs to be involved.

As long as you owned the firearm in your state of residence and are having it shipped back to this same address.

Call the ATF to be sure.................
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2011, 12:19:52 pm »

I have a somewhat different problem. A friend passed away and left several guns to me. He was in Nevada, I am in Alabama. Most of the guns are BP...no problem according to UPS. A couple are modern cartridge. The word I got from UPS was that they have to be shipped from a FFL holder to another FFL holder. I cannot make the trip to Nevada due to health problems. My friend's widow and I are co-ordinating the BP weapons, these can be shipped from a UPS center. One more gun is a problem. An 1871 Mauser. Bolt action, cartridge. Antique, yes, potential problem, also yes.
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2011, 12:27:57 pm »

My understanding is that any firearm that crosses a state line must be processed through an FFL.

A long gun or a shotgun can be processed at point of origin if you are present to receive them. (But state laws might supersede this)

Handguns MUST be transferred through an FFL in the state which you reside.

No modern firearm can simply be sent to you across state lines.

No private transfer can happen across state lines.
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Roy B
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2011, 11:50:55 pm »

Called the ATF today. According to them, in my case, the cartridge firearms have to shipped from an FFL holder to an FFL holder. The black powder weapons, well, she had no idea! Our government agencies at work, beautiful.
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« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2011, 07:17:49 pm »

Quote
firearms have to shipped from an FFL holder to an FFL holder

I'd get a second opinion on this. I think there only needs to be an FFL on the receiving end.

I know thousands of firearms are sold from one state to another and simply shipped by the seller to an FFL in the state of the buyer..........
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Roy B
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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2011, 08:02:07 pm »

My Dear Drayton -

>An 1871 Mauser. Bolt action, cartridge. Antique, yes, potential problem, also yes.

If you can determine that the rifle was actually built "before 1899" (often called pre '98) then it matters not whether it is a cartridge rifle or not, it can be sent direct to your door by U.S. Postal Service or UPS.

The Mauser Model 1871 or  Gewehr 71 was built from 1871 till 1888 so that counts as a "Non-FFL" rifle. this is the 11 mm single shot rifle.

if it is a 71/84 that was the "tube fed conversion" of which Production ended in 1890, so that counts as a "non-ffl" rifle also.

Please review the 'Pre 98 FAQ's here, these are especially good as they reference the actual BATF doco:
http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

and here is an example of an ongoing brick-and-mortar business that deals in Pre-98 guns:
http://www.empirearms.com/antique.htm

hope this helps
yhs
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Mako
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2011, 08:35:31 pm »

It needs to be said once again that ALL interstate shipping of firearms does NOT have to be to or through an FFL holder.  We commonly ship our hunting guns ahead to avoid the hassle at airports.  See the ATF question and answer page:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional

This is the particular question I am referring to:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Guides and guide services receive them all of the time in places like Alaska.  Lodges and most Inns in those areas will take them and secure them until your arrival if you simply call ahead.

I will also add some shooters at major matches (not CAS) send their firearms and the piles of ammo ahead as well.  I remember one time a lot of the shooters got special pricing through USPSA and stayed at the Peppermill in Reno for the Nationals, they had to make one of their suites a room just to hold all of the packages.

It was said above, but in the following posts it made it sound like interstate ONLY could be to or with an FFL involved with no exceptions.  Be careful with what you ask and how you ask it.  The answer will be "no" until you direct them to that or any other exception.  Then the answer changes to, "well yes, in that case you can..."

Read the FAQs carefully yourself and do searches in the PDF publications they put out.  You will find your answers there.

Regards,
Mako


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