Stupid Question

[triple w]

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I have a somewhat stupid question, are cap and ball weapons allowed in NCOWS ?

[Books OToole]

Of course.

They even have their own class; if that is what you want.
[Pistoleer}

Books

[Deadeye Dick]

The only stupid question is the one unasked. Yes, cap and ball guns are allowed in NCOWS, but they must be period correct.
Deadeye Dick

[triple w]

Of course.

They even have their own class; if that is what you want.
[Pistoleer}

Books

Thought so, but in reviewing the Aproved List I noticed only Cartridge guns were listed.

Thanks

[Patrick Henry Brown]

A peculiar anamoly about the approved weapons list and the cap and ball issue. Nonetheless, our Bylaws make provisions for the use of weapons not on the Approved List. Our Approved List and Disapproved List is not all encompassing. I've waged some very vocal discussions about this, later to realize my wasted effort and energy. Avoid any 1851 chambered in 44 caliber or brass framed. Likewise, avoid any brass framed Remington 1858's. Best bet is Colt 1851 clones in 36, 1860 Colts in 44, 1861 Colts in 36, Remington 1858's in 36 or 44, as long as all are steel framed. No questions with these. When you move to the brass frames, the burdon shifts to the shooter to document the authenticity of his selection. Good luck and good shooting. BTW, no dumb questions, except the ones not asked, as mentioned above. Godspeed.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

If you shoot C&B in NCOWS, you'll want to avoid the Ruger "Old Army" as it has no historic provenance.

BTW:  We see a fair number of C&B shooters at the NCOWS posses here in Texas.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here is an extract from the NCOWS Bylaws that sets out the general rule;

7-2. No modern (post 1899) firearms will be allowed unless they are authentic reproductions of traditional firearms or very markedly resemble traditional firearms. Traditional firearms are defined as those manufactured prior to or during the era 1865-1899 and in documented use on the North American Frontier within that time period. Center-fire calibers may substitute for original rim-fire calibers in reproduction firearms. Reproduction firearms chambered in calibers not utilized in original models shall be allowed as long as such calibers are original to the period or are otherwise approved by the National Congress of Old West Shootists. (Amended March, 2010)

Notice the key terms, "Traditional Firearms" and "Authentic reproductions".  This is the essence of the rule. The horsefly in the linament is the term "markedly resemble".

There was a VERY LONG thread recently that attempted to explain how it works, or doesn't work! If you are a member you can see it here;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,36042.0.html

[Cherokee Bodie]

I have a somewhat stupid question, are cap and ball weapons allowed in NCOWS ?

Its not a clear answer in the Tally Book but in my first NCOWS shoot I used an 1860 army C&B, Pedersoli percussion 10 gage Fowler, and a Henry rifle. Did a copy and paste from By-Law 10 and here it is. For my 2nd NCOWS I will shoot the same. What a blast.
Men’s and Women’s Pistoleer: Shooters are restricted to the use of percussion revolvers, pre-1873
percussion or original/authentic reproductions of rimfi re cartridge pocket pistols, exposed-hammer doublebarrel
shotguns (percussion or cartridge), and reproduction or original pre-1873 pistol-caliber repeating
rifl es (e.g. 1860 Henry, Spencer, 1866 Winchester, etc: Shooters must shoot blackpowder or approved
blackpowder substitute powder in all fi rearms except those chambered for rimfi re cartridges. Pistols and
revolvers must be shot one-handed. Pistoleer shooters will shoot the same course of fi re as the other
competitors except that in a stage requiring more than two shotgun rounds the Pistoleer shooter would not
be required to shoot the extra rounds.

[Cliff Fendley]

The Tally book is not clear about a lot of things. A new person has no idea what guns are used in many of the classes. It needs some serious work to make it clear for new shooters.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

The Tally book is not clear about a lot of things. A new person has no idea what guns are used in many of the classes. It needs some serious work to make it clear for new shooters.

Amen Cliff ... As a new person looking into NCOWS, what I have seen reads like a lawyer wrote it and answers questions like a politician.   

[triple w]

Well, here she is, my new Ubetri 1851 "London" Navy. Now I get to make me another holster! 

TW

[Dr. Bob]

Congrats!!

The Executive Committee is aware of the need to list percussion revolvers and discussion is under way.  I can't promise speedy resolution of this situation, but we are working toward some guidance for the NCOWS web site.

[bowiemaker]

The rules and the Tally Book have been an ongoing point of confusion and frustration for me as a newcomer. For example; Duelist makes no mention of rifle or shotgun yet they are required. In fact, most shooting categories are not clear about the number or types of guns required. This seems like it could be pretty simpe fix to rewrite the rules with clearer definitions.

For shooting classes I would like to see clear definitions such as:

Men’s and Women’s Working Cowboy:
Required Guns: One pistol and one pistol caliber rifle
Powder: Smokeless or Black Powder cartridges
Pistol Grip: One or two hand
Specifics: No gun carts are to be used at any time.

If every shooting category had a simple heading like this it would eliminate a lot of confusion.

[wildman1]

The rules and the Tally Book have been an ongoing point of confusion and frustration for me as a newcomer. For example; Duelist makes no mention of rifle or shotgun yet they are required. In fact, most shooting categories are not clear about the number or types of guns required. This seems like it could be pretty simpe fix to rewrite the rules with clearer definitions.

For shooting classes I would like to see clear definitions such as:

Men’s and Women’s Working Cowboy:
Required Guns: One pistol and one pistol caliber rifle
Powder: Smokeless or Black Powder cartridges
Pistol Grip: One or two hand
Specifics: No gun carts are to be used at any time.

If every shooting category had a simple heading like this it would eliminate a lot of confusion.

I have to agree with you on that I think I actually had a clearer view before I tried to read the rules. WM

[Pancho Peacemaker]

The rules and the Tally Book have been an ongoing point of confusion and frustration for me as a newcomer. For example; Duelist makes no mention of rifle or shotgun yet they are required. In fact, most shooting categories are not clear about the number or types of guns required. This seems like it could be pretty simpe fix to rewrite the rules with clearer definitions.

For shooting classes I would like to see clear definitions such as:

Men’s and Women’s Working Cowboy:
Required Guns: One pistol and one pistol caliber rifle
Powder: Smokeless or Black Powder cartridges
Pistol Grip: One or two hand
Specifics: No gun carts are to be used at any time.

If every shooting category had a simple heading like this it would eliminate a lot of confusion.

Take a look about half way down this page:

http://www.bergersharpshooters.com/Rules_and_Regulations.html

It has a "chart" that was devised to help clear up the classes.

Feel free to copy and paste if needed.

[bowiemaker]

Take a look about half way down this page:

http://www.bergersharpshooters.com/Rules_and_Regulations.html

It has a "chart" that was devised to help clear up the classes.

Feel free to copy and paste if needed.

Pancho, that is a much clearer definition than is in the official rules. It needs to be incorporated into the NCOWS website where any interested party can easily find it.

[Dr. Bob]

bowiemakerr,

That is a great idea.  I will take that to the Exec. Comm. too!  Thanks for everyone sharing ideas.  It's great to have others eyes looking and finding things that can be improved!

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Pancho,  Are your rules on the classes what would be stipulated at the Nationals?  I ask because several of the posses use 3 guns in place of the 4 guns at their local matches.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Pancho,  Are your rules on the classes what would be stipulated at the Nationals?  I ask because several of the posses use 3 guns in place of the 4 guns at their local matches.

The "class rules" on the BSS page were adopted based on current NCOWS class rules.  Those rules should be followed at all major NCOWS events, including the Nationals.

I know many posses have "local" class rules (i.e. Sod Buster, Range Detective, etc...)  These are fun and can have some good foundation in history.  However, those "local" rules should not be recoginzed at a major Regional or National NCOWS event.  The class structure that our NCOWS Congress votes on is the norm for the big matches.

Pancho

[bowiemaker]

I think it is great that local posses try new classes like "sodbuster". If they work out and are popular they might be added as regular NCOWS classes.

However, I do not agree with changing the rules on established classes even at local shoots. It just adds to the confusion.

[wildman1]

THANKS. WM

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

One last question.  In the Smokeless classes, a shooter could use black powder in the revolvers and smokeless in the rifle and shotgun, correct?

[Dutch Limbach]

A fly in the ointment is: 2 pistols are NOT REQUIRED for any class. Some posses, GLFMC for one, only use 1 pistol for ALL classes. Also, a shooter can choose to use one pistol and reload on the clock.

To REQUIRE 2 pistols be used for particular classes would infringe on the sovereignty of local posses that prefer to use one pistol.

Dutch
Former GLFMC Judge

[Windy City Joe]

Smokeless means smokeless in all your rifles, shotguns and pistols,
Black Powder means Black Powder in all your rifles, shotguns and pistols,

[bowiemaker]

The last two posts above really illustrate the need for clarification. Different members have different takes on it. So you are saying that there really are no 3 or 4 gun classes? Likewise, I was told that I could shoot my BP cap & ball in "Working Cowboy", I would just be scored as smokless.

Since the NCOWS by-laws state: "All NCOWS shooting classes, as established by By-Law, must be made available to all shooters at each National, Regional or Charter Posse Shoot. " I think those classes should be clearly defined and and run in a uniform manner at all NCOWS events.

If local posses want to add additional classes or specialty shoots, I see no problem with that.