.45 Colt and Bullseye Powder

[Virginia Gentleman]

A good alternative smokeless powder that is super clean burning and burns at a comparable rate to Bullseye is Hodgdon Clays.  Their recommended 4.2 to 5.1 grains of Clays in .45 Colt with a 250 grain LRNFP bullet has similar performance.  It is clean as a whistle compared to the smoke and soot laden Bullseye.

[USBP1969]

Thanks much.

I need to do some studying on Hodgdon Clays powder.

-kent

[Shotgun Franklin]

I've tried every powder listed in this posting. I settled on Red Dot because I can load it hot if I want to, it's cleaner than the others and it gives me good accuracy. I think if you try it you'll be happy with the results.

[Advertising]

[Virginia Gentleman]

I have not found Red Dot to be anywhere close to Clays in terms of clean burning even with SPG lubed lead bullets. 

[USBP1969]

Did some searching.

There seems to be three different Clays listed on RCBS's powder measure list.  One is just "Clays", one is "Universal Clays," and one is "International Clays."  Is the one I'm looking for just listed as "Clays?"

Thanks,
-kent

[Steel Horse Bailey]

USBP1969 Howdy!

Clays is what he is referring to.  I switched to Clays some years ago after being a Bullseye fan, then a Win 231 fan.  It is clean, 'tho Alliant "cleaned up" their powders (most notably Unique) and the old "smokies" aren't so dirty anymore.

I use the highest amount recommended using 250 gr. bullets on the Hodgden Clays site for my 45 Colt loads .... when I don't use Black Powder - which is MOST of the time.  The load is VERY good, pretty economical, and Seals the case best, which puts the Blowback issue to rest.  Many love the lower loads.  This is understandable in competition, but I prefer what the mfgr. recommends.  Along with sealing the cases, the highest load is also the most accurate - at least in my 5 guns.  (3 Pistols, 2 rifles)

As to burning rates, the first 10-12 powders listed regularly switch positions.  They all burn at very similar rates.

Muzzle flash when using Bullseye isn't for the faint of heart!    But it's still a great powder - and I doubt any CAS matches are shot in very dim, indoor conditions.  None I've been to in my 12 years of SASS & NCOWS, anyway.

 

 


Try Clays:  (not Universal Clays or International Clays);  you won't be sorry.

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)

[Virginia Gentleman]

Did some searching.

There seems to be three different Clays listed on RCBS's powder measure list.  One is just "Clays", one is "Universal Clays," and one is "International Clays."  Is the one I'm looking for just listed as "Clays?"

Thanks,
-kent

Correct, just plain olde "Clays" and use the data Hodgdon supplies on their website.

[Crow Choker]

USBP1969:
Read your past expierence in using 2.7 vs 3.0 grains of Bullseye with interest. Back in the mid 70's when I started relaoding 38 Spec either using Speer HBWC or cast BBWC for use in Police PPC Courses, I found the same results when going to 3.0 grains of Bullseye. The 2.7 worked best for either bullet whether at 50, 25, or less yardage. Loaded 1000's of rds using 2.7 Bullseye until switching to a cast SWC and Win 231 when I dumped PPC in favor of more realistic combat shooting using duty gear.

Ref 45 Colt and Bullseye, never tried it, but due to it being a dirty burner and the amount needed vs available case space, I won't use it nor recomend. Been reloading 45 Colt since '91 and have found 6.0 Alliant Red Dot, 7.1 Win 231, 6.0 IMR 700X, 5.5 IMR Trail Boss, 5.5 Accurate Nitro 100 all work well with 250-255 grain cast lead bullets (conical or SWC). Check out each manufacturers load recomendations and watch for double charges. Hodgen HP-38 is also good, but is bascily the same powder as Win 231. I've also had good results with Alliant Unique(the old stand-by for most any caliber) in the 8.0-8-5 grain loadings. Unique used to be a dirty burner (as some claimed), but the newer version is suppose to be cleaner. My favorite, probably Red Dot, but I've been using alot of Trail Boss in the last 2-3 years. As noted, you can pick up used single stage presses at gun shows at reasonable prices, maybe off the internet, try a 'wanted' request on this forum. I don't have a progressive press and can load up 'lotsa' ammo off thee 'ol RCBS Rockchucker I got back in '76. Yers, Crow Choker

[Virginia Gentleman]

Im my experience, nothing I have tried burns cleaner than Clays and the amount of smoke, even with lead bullets is minimal.  Jacketed bullet loads with Unique by comparison look like black powder loads compared to lead bullet loads with Clays.

[Crow Choker]

Hey Gents: I have head nothing but good about Clays powder, I've just never tried it, been told to try, maybe someday I will. Once upon a time in my reloading, I got into the habit of trying every powder that 'came down the pike'. Nothing wrong with that, helps in finding the right powder for your gun/bullet choice,  just that I somehow ended up with about every powder available for the calibers I reloaded for (rifle and handgun). Didn't need that much cluttering up my powder cabinet. Nowdays, I sort of keep my powder selection to 2-3 per caliber, sometimes 2, some to one only. Agree that thee 'ol Unique is alot dirtier than some, the newer stuff appears to be cleaner shooting. But, if I was given the choice of say selecting only a few powders to reload handgun, Unique would be there, works for about everything. Good day to you all. Crow Choker

[Steel Horse Bailey]

It's called Unique for a reason.  It can be used in one way or another in about ANY caliber or style of pistol, rifle, & shotgun.

Others can, too - but Unique has been around soooooo long, it's hard to argue with that kind of success!

[USBP1969]

Well - Something happened about 6+ months ago that kinda puts a kink in my reloading.  While shooting a 442 with some new grips with .38 +P 135 Gold Dot I suddenly experienced a severe pain in the web of my shooting hand.  Now, many months later, whenever pressure is applied there I am reminded of the injury.

The hand specialist sez that the bones are fine, but that there is a nerve that runs exactly where the pain is.  After this long I don't know if it will ever heal so I will be carrying a 6.5" Ruger Single Six (fixed sights) in a Nelson 92 inside the waistband holster butt forward on the right side for a right hand draw.  (Later, maybe one on the left for a New York Reload since it's really slow to unload and reload.)

-kent

[Crow Choker]

Know what you mean by the pain(ie my PM to you about my former hand injury, surgery, and recovery). If they have you doing therapy, do it 'big time' no matter how boring or the pain it brings. Pain = Gain.

Ref the talk about Unique, check out the December 2011 issue (no 275) of "Handloader" magazine. Good article on Unique!

[w44wcf]

I have dissected some earlier factory 45 Colt cartridges (250 gr lead) and interestingly, found that they were loaded with Bullseye or a powder that looks like it.  They shot just fine in my guns. I did not notice any unusual muzzle flash....at least outdoors.

For a 250 gr lead bullet, an Alliant powder pamplet shows 5.4 / Bullseye / 805 f.p.s. / 11,800. That powder charge matches closely with the one I found in the  45 Colt smokeless cartridges.

The Alliant pamphlet also shows the following with a 250 gr. lead bullet:
6.0 / Red Dot .. / 830 f.p.s. / 12,000 CUP
6.8 / Green Dot / 855 f.p.s. / 12,300 CUP
8.0 / Unique.... / 850 f.p.s. / 11,800 CUP
9.0 / Herco ...../ 910 f.p.s. / 12,600 CUP

w44wcf

  

[Grapeshot]

Howdy,
The problem is that the .45 Colt has a huge internal volume.  I'll be using between 6.0 and 6.5 grains of Bullseye, but it'll still be just a pinch compared to case volume.  Two questions, if I may:

1) Should this pose any problem?
2) I read somewhere 30+ years ago of putting some toilet paper on top of the Bullseye to keep it in a consistent position in the .45 Colt casing. (I tried it with the .38, but saw no difference and had no grass fires.)

I'd appreciate any thoughts / experiences that you might have.

thanks,
kent

When the US Army was making smokeless .45 Colt/.45Government(M1909) cartridges they to were concerned about double charging the Huge .45 Colt case using Bullseye.  They finally conjured up a powder they called RSQ, (Rescue?) that was bulky enough to be able to overflow the case, IIRC.

I can not find fault with any of the powder choices that have been suggested, however, when it comes to loading the .45 Colt, something I've been doing since 1974, I prefer Trail Boss when using a progressive.  If I'm using a single stage like my Rock Chucker, then any of the powders listed, including Black Powder or its substitutes are fine with me.  YMMV.

[rbertalotto]

Whenever one is thinking about downloading 45LC, the next thought should be "Cowboy45 Special" brass.

A set of 45ACP dies and a bag full of Cowboy45 Spl brass and you are good to go all the way down to 500fps if you want. Or any velocity that you would normally see in a 45ACP.

The 45LC was the Magnum of its day. It would be like trying to download 44 Magnums instead of using 44spl.

We now have a safe, reliable and inexpensive option for all thos folks that love their 45LC handguns, but don't need or want the velocity and recoil of full house loads.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I have been loading 44 special loads in Magnum cases for years.  Use them in my rifle which does not like 200 grn lrn in a 44 spec case.  Use pretty fast powders like Nitro 100 and AA2 that function ok in the larger case.  Ya do have to be really carefull not to tripple charge.  In my case the double charge is the non cowboy starting load for 44 mag.

[rbertalotto]

Be VERY careful with "Fast" powders ion large cases.............predetonation

The 45LC case is volumetrically much larger than a 44 magnum.  But I wouldn't download even the smaller 44 magnum case. All it takes is one time for the powder to be in the wrong place, the primer flash fires over the top of the powder, pushing the bullet into the barrel before the main powder charge lights off. A barrel obstruction with a bit of Bulls Eye behind it can really wreck your day......and really ruin the day of the guy beside you on the firing line.


(I'm totally prepared for the ..."I've been shooting three grains of Bullseye in XYZ cases for fifty years without a problem"...comments...... )

[cpt dan blodgett]

Dont really download the 45 Colt, my real old Accurate Arms manual has nitro 100 and AA2 data for the 45 colt.
I called about the accurate new nitro 100 and was told to reduce loads from old data 10 - 15 percent.   Website now says 10% which is probably a much better stroke on the low end.

[harleydavis]

I have used Unique in my .45 Colt, .44WCF & .38 Spec laods for years. Always been good. Now then, since all the silliness has taken hold in the firearms world, I cannot find a grain of Unique for sale. I have a couple pounds but will need more eventually so I thought I would start early. I am told that Unique is what is used in shoulder fired missles (maybe true, maybe not) and that is why it is so difficult to come by. Anway, what has anyone found to perform similar to Unique? I see a lot of mention of Red Dot, Clays & Trail Boss. Anyone have experience with HP-38 in CAS?
Thank you.