Charging from flask or measure?

[Trooper224]

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When charging a caplock revolver do you folks prefer to charge directly from a flask or use a seperate powder measure.  I'm gettting back into this type of shooting after a twenty year hiatus and would like some feedback on this issue.

[Fingers McGee]

I've always used a flask with appropriately sized spout to charge my revolvers.  Others may disagree with the practice; but I've never seen or heard of a documented case where a flask has gone off charging a revolver cylinder.

Single shot pistols and rifles are a completely different matter.

FM

[Noz]

I've always used a flask with appropriately sized spout to charge my revolvers.  Others may disagree with the practice; but I've never seen or heard of a documented case where a flask has gone off charging a revolver cylinder.

Single shot pistols and rifles are a completely different matter.

FM

What Fingers said!

[john boy]

Pile On --- Plus 2 for what Fingers posted

[Brizco-Z]

Pard, I have to chime in and agree with the right honorable Mr.McGee, I too charge the Cap & Ball pistol with a flask that has the thumb lever type head.  It has the measure spout for the caliber I am shooting at the time.  Now for long guns, I have never, as I recall, poured directlly down the bore from a flask.  I always take the time to use a powder measure.  The ones I have do not have the little funnel attached but are adjustable for differing loads.

My 2 cents,  Brizco-Z

[Dick Dastardly]

Pistols, from flask.  Rifle and shotgun from measure.  Pistols will cool before reloading.  Rifle and shotgun can hold sparks because you would be reloading them sooner.

It works for me, and I still have my ugly face to prove it. . .

DD-DLoS

[Pettifogger]

The anal will say flask to measure to cylinder.  Shooters say dump it in directly.

[Mako]

The anal will say flask to measure to cylinder.  Shooters say dump it in directly.

The anal animals say, "from can directly to cylinder and just shake off the extra that is heaped up on top of the cylinder."

Sorry, just had to...

Use a flask, I use one of these, which is a half pint Treso flask with a 30gr spout.  It's easy to use and measures out well.

<a href="http://possibleshop.com/image-powder/75-03.jpg" target="_blank">http://possibleshop.com/image-powder/75-03.jpg</a>

~Mako

[Trooper224]

Thanks guys, years ago I developed the habit of loading from a seperste measure, whether it be with a rifle or pistol.  I recieved a Uberti Dragoon for Christmas.  During my first couple of outtings I told myself, "It sure would save a lot of fidgeting if I charged right from the flask."  Just wanted some experienced feedback.

[fourfingersofdeath]

The anal animals say, "from can directly to cylinder and just shake off the extra that is heaped up on top of the cylinder."

Sorry, just had to...

Use a flask, I use one of these, which is a half pint Treso flask with a 30gr spout.  It's easy to use and measures out well.



~Mako

I use  one of these, but mine ain't so shiny!

[Mako]

I use  one of these, but mine ain't so shiny!

Neither are mine... if you wish to start a contest on the most used looking (ugliest) flasks here are my submissions:

<a href="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1668.jpg" target="_blank">http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1668.jpg</a>

Regards,
Mako

[Paladin UK]

Oh!! If only I had known!!
I cleaned it in December!!


Paladin (What keeps his spout clean ) UK

[Pappy Myles]

I'll add to the pile.  I have an old brass flask I've had for years when loading rifle (flask to measure to barrel)  When I picked up my ROA's I started to use the flask direct with no problem.  I got lucky one day and found at cabella's a "kit" that had several different sized spouts.  One of them is about 34 grains.  When I put the finger over the top and then pour into the cylinder, I get somewhere from 28 to 32 grains.  Good enough for my shots..........

In my efforts for efficiency,  I've acquired a cylinder loader where I take the cylinder out, put it on the stand, and use a funnel and a lee scoop right out of a jar.  Goes fast, but I got to keep the smokers away.   Other than that, I still use the flask on occasion.

[Mako]

Pappy,
I hear you about the smoking!!!...Some of the guys chomp on cigars and wander over and I have to chase them off. 

I use a cylinder loader too.  But as you can see I use my flasks.  I actually have 4, two are traditional Colt's style and then these two.  I like these Treso flasks and the larger diameter measuring spouts.  I have done a few experiments with both styles and found I throw more consistent chages with the Treso flask.

The larger one doesn't quite have enough volume for a full match, I throw 30 grains of FFFg.  I wanted second one of the larger size but they only had small ones when I went back.

People tend to want to watch and talk to me while I load and it is probably safer for me to load off of the pistol because I can check everything before going to the next step.  I charge five chambers then add lubed wads and then press them down with a dowel, before adding balls.  ramming the wads home keeps me from ever seating a ball on a chamber without powder.  I also have a second dowel I put in the empty chamber while it is on the loading stand to make sure I don't try to stick anything in it.

Regards,
Mako

[Mako]

Oh!! If only I had known!!
I cleaned it in December!!
<a href="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/paladinuk/29gnr.jpg?t=1294777831" target="_blank">http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/paladinuk/29gnr.jpg?t=1294777831</a>

Paladin (What keeps his spout clean ) UK

Mako...(what keeps his clean on the inside...)

<a href="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1677.jpg" target="_blank">http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1677.jpg</a>

Yours, looks good my friend...As you can see I switched to the fat stumpy spouts which are probably easier to use off pistol.  

Now I have a dilemma, do I clean mine to keep up with my British brothers or remain the unwashed colonist that some of you accuse us of being?

~Mako

[Pappy Myles]

Thanks Mako,  like the flask.

I just may go get a flask like that as it sure makes me nervis at times with the open jar of powder.   I have one of those wide mouth ones from the container store that has a rubber seal and a spring steel clamp.  Gives it some character and makes charging fast, but..........

The thing I like about the cylinder tower is the ram is adjustable.  That and after I fill the 5 cylinders, I have that last visible check to make sure the chambers are about the same.  I use an older mold from DD.  The original ROA conical big lube with spg and sized at .454 in a star luber sizer.   actually, without wad's.  Theres enough lube on the bullet to float a small bass boat.

[Pettifogger]

In my efforts for efficiency,  I've acquired a cylinder loader where I take the cylinder out, put it on the stand, and use a funnel and a lee scoop right out of a jar.  Goes fast, but I got to keep the smokers away.   Other than that, I still use the flask on occasion.

One word -- WIND

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Mako,

Thanks for the great tip about making up dowels to place into chambers ... I am often firing and loading only one or two shots when doing reenactment type stuff ... I was going to buy a 7/16" (approximentally .437 of an inch) dowel to make a rammer out of (since we fire floral foam during reenactments, the standard ramrod doesn't work).

So now I can take the rest of the dowel and make faux charges ..... great idea and I am already buying the dowel .... there is just some kind of Yankee in me that tells me I have to make use of most of every thing I buy... so now I have use for about half the dowel...

So do you cut off the dowel to the exact length of the cylinder so that the cylinder will spin on the weapon, or do you leave abourt a half inch longer than the barrel so that you can pull it out with your fingers ....

Inquiring minds want to know ... *S*

[Mako]

Wadwatson,
I don't normally load using the barrel mounted lever, I use a a cylinder loader.  It's odd you mentioned 1/2 inch, the marking dowel I use sticks up about  1/2" above the cylinder face.  It doesn't have to pass under the barrel so it sits proud.  The 1/2" gives me clearance for powder charging if I put it in before adding powder.  I charge the cylinder with powder while holding it in my hand and probably 80% of the time add the dowel only before I place it on the stand, every once in a while I stick it in before charging.  But either way I always do a quick visual of each chamber and add the dowel if not present and place it on the stand arbor.

I have only ever rammed one ball home without a charge and I realized it right away because the ramming plunger kept on going down.  I unscrewed the cone and used a brass rod that fits through the threaded hole to knock it out.  However, I used to put wads in the empty chamber on a regular basis because the powder is dark and doesn't visually jump out at you, it's sort of hidden in the chamber.  The dowel now keeps me straight.

I have another dowel about 4 inches long I use to seat my wads.  After I seat the wads I put a ball on each chamber, then I pull the marking rod and rotate the cylinder under the ramming plunger.  If you look at the pictures below you can see the dowel would be in the way when ramming the chamber on either side of it.

<a href="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1993.jpg" target="_blank">http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1993.jpg</a>
<a href="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1998.jpg" target="_blank">http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1998.jpg</a>
<a href="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1997-1.jpg" target="_blank">http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Lube%20and%20Loading/IMG_1997-1.jpg</a>

I hadn't considered using a dowel if I loaded on the pistol.  It should work, but you would have to make if fit completely in the cylinder as you mentioned since the cylinder hand prevents you from backing the cylinder up and there would be three chambers it wouldn't help you on.

Remember the ball I loaded without powder?  See that rod with the button head cap and the brass slide weight on the left side of the fixture?  That's a "Slide Hammer" made to pull a ball if it ever happened again.  I have another three pieces not shown, one is a guide with three steps on it to cover .31. 36 and .44 calibers. It has .44 and .31 on on end and you flip it for the .36 on the other.  The guide has a hole through the axis which guides the "T-Handles".  One handle is a high helix drill bit soldered to a simple "T-handle" made from steel rod stock and a tap mounted to an identical "T-handle. " To use, you would just put the guide over the hole with the offending ball and make a few turns with the drill and then run the tap in.  Then the slide hammer which is mounted to the loader base is unscrewed and threaded into the ball and you just slide the brass weigh back and knock it back out.

Look on the 3rd picture and you can see the arbor for my Remingtons and the brass tip for my .36 caliber pistols are threaded into the the right side of the loader base.

The whole thing is small and compact.  It's actually optimized for my 1860s, the Colt '51 cylinders are only .122" shorter and have the same chamber pattern so they work just as well, I have the brass piece for the .36 caliber at a different height to put it on center when the lever is close to horizontal.  Having the plunger hang square to the cylinder face keeps me from having to guide it into the chambers.  The Remington '58 cylinders work because the design allows me to flip the plunger piece.  I you look at the pictures you'll see it is off center, I remove the screw and remount it 180° from the Colt position.  The Remington position is not ideal because I only have one .44 brass plunger.  The height difference between the Colt and Remington along with the different "chamber circle" makes it hard to make both work optimally with this simple unguided plunger design.  So I optimized it for my pistol of choice.   It isn't hard to use with the Remingtons, it loads them well, you just have to watch and sometimes guide the brass piece because the handle is not in the ideal position of the arc.

This loader won't work for small frame or the larger frame Colt Pistols.  I may get one of Dick's loaders instead of making three more.  I'd have to have one for the tall Walker cylinders, one for the Dragoons and one for the '49 and the '62s (Well the Ubertis) I have no idea what Pietta has done with their so called '62s.  I think they made another "Platypus" pistol with their versions. But that not a problem, I only have two Pietta Colt pattern pistols and they are '60s. Presently I'm not shooting the Walkers or Dragoons in matches so the barrel mounted levers work fine for general recreational shooting.

Regards,
Mako

[Trooper224]

Use a flask, I use one of these, which is a half pint Treso flask with a 30gr spout.  It's easy to use and measures out well.



~Mako

That's exactly what I use.  It's a good thing I never throw shooting related widgets away, I was able to find most of my old blackpowder accessories by digging around in the garage.

[Noz]

I load on the gun.  I charge a chamber(from a flask) and place a wad. After I have done 5, I place a rb on each wad.  I don't have a dedicated open cylinder. Which ever one is one ahesd of the rammer is where I start.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

My flask really looks much grungier than this ,the light was too bright when I took the photo. I too had to go hunting to find it, I hadn't used it in years. Started using it again with my 1860 Armies last year.

By the way, be sure to empty your flask when you are done using it. Mine sat with some FFg inside for about twenty years, and boy does BP attract moisture from the air. It was a real mess inside.



To answer the original question, conventional wisdom was always not to load straight from the flask, in case there was a burning ember still down inside the bore. This could flash to the flask and blow the whole thing up in your hands. Definitely not a good thing with a half pound or so of powder in the flask.

However, when we shoot cowboy, by the time you visit the unloading table, then walk to your cart, then wait until it is time to shoot again at the next stage, probably about an hour will have gone by. There ain't gonna be any burning embers left down in the chambers after an hour.

[Mako]

Howdy
.....
However, when we shoot cowboy, by the time you visit the unloading table, then walk to your cart, then wait until it is time to shoot again at the next stage, probably about an hour will have gone by. There ain't gonna be any burning embers left down in the chambers after an hour.

WOW! an hour per stage?  Do you have over 30 people per posse?  If you shoot an 8 stage match you won't be finished until 5pm.

One club I shoot with has lately been crowding 20 plus into posses and it ends up taking over four and a half hours to finish a 6 stage match.  I hate it when we get more than 15 per posse because it takes too long. When we have 45 people they need to make it three or even four posses instead of two.

in my humble opinion 12 is the ideal number for a Posse. That gives you an R.O. A score keeper, 3 spotters, a loading table officer, and unloading table officer and 5 people should be loading or preparing to load.  10 works pretty well as well, but the loading table has to be kept full.  3 minutes per shooter...

Regards,
Mako

[Fox Creek Kid]

Mako, do you have small burro to haul that medieval torture device to the range to load with? 


FWIW, I have always loaded with cylinder off the gun and then never directly from the flask as I use a brass funnel. There's a trick to shielding it from the wind with your fingers. I know a fella who saw a guy lose a hand at a BP shoot years ago loading a musket. He said the guy loaded from a flask and it evidently had a burning ember somewhere in the barrel. He said the flask grenaded and the man was left with a charred stump.  That was in Missouri I believe. As stated before, pistols are a different matter than rifles and there is probably little danger. I always smartly tap the cylinder face down on the bench and sometimes even blow into it before loading anyway.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Mako

Yup, we usually count on about an hour per stag. Although sometimes we get lucky and it only takes about 45 minutes. Still plenty of time for a C&B pistol to be safe to reload.

In these parts, depending on the club and how many show up posses can vary from 12 to 20 shooters.