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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Frontier Iron (Moderator: St. George)  |  Topic: Iver Johnson Revolver 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Iver Johnson Revolver  (Read 10522 times)
Slowhand
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« on: January 09, 2011, 12:48:51 pm »




I just added an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic to my collection.. I bought it as an antique made prior to 1899. 



From my research I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame, cylinder "free-wheeling" when at rest, plus the Owl is looking towards the muzzle end of the barrel.


Barrel length:  3 inches. 5 rounds cylinder capacity, Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches. The cylinder measures out at 0.93 of an inch and the chambers are 0.3350 inch in width. So itís a .32 caliber.



The address on the barrel reads:

IVER JOHNSONíS ARMS & CYCLE WORKS. FITZBURG MASS USA
PATD APR 6 80 FEB15 87 MAY 10 87 DEC 20 93 PATíS PENDING

There are two sets of numbers on this gun.



Underneath the grip on the left side is the number 37.  There are no serial number prefix letters or other numbers there.



On the back of the top break barrel, underneath the base pin is the number 47.



The previous owner said that he shot it about once a month. I donít plan on that. It has been in a plastic bag since Friday soaking to get cleaned up.

Iím of course looking for more information. Such as a parts listing, a schematic regarding disassembly. Thereís of course no Ownerís Manual or PDF file available for these Old Gals. So Iím winging it here.

Not a top of the line piece but like several of my other recent additions Iver Johnson revolvers have a place in American History worthy of note.



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Stu Kettle
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 01:22:42 pm »

"I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch..."

I haven't done in research on Iver Johson revolvers, but I didn't think your description matched the picture. The picture looks like it has one top post for the latch.  Here is a picture of mine with a two post latch.  It doesn't have the pat. dates either.


* top view.png (133.98 KB, 410x274 - viewed 370 times.)
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 02:07:05 pm »

Nice li'l pocket pistol there Pard!

Looks allot like my Harrington & Richardson 32 S&W Long (cylinder length is 1.234").  I also have a 2nd generation S&W 32 Lemon Squeezer that shoots 32 S&W loads that the cylinder length is .924" and the cylinder bore is .340" in both.  The OD of the brass rounds are .333" for my 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long rounds loaded up with Powder and Lead!

Hope this helps for what it's worth.

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Christopher Carson
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2011, 03:13:07 pm »


I just added an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic to my collection.. I bought it as an antique made prior to 1899. 

Iím of course looking for more information. Such as a parts listing, a schematic regarding disassembly. Thereís of course no Ownerís Manual or PDF file available for these Old Gals. So Iím winging it here.


I think Numrich/Gun Parts Corp has a schematic on line.  And maybe some miscellaneous parts...

-Chris
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Slowhand
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2011, 04:04:59 pm »

"I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch..."

I haven't done in research on Iver Johson revolvers, but I didn't think your description matched the picture. The picture looks like it has one top post for the latch.  Here is a picture of mine with a two post latch.  It doesn't have the pat. dates either.

Interesting bit of information. I'm still digging on this one. The single post was in the first model and the 2 variations that followed. The second variation of the 1st Model was when they started adding the letter prefix. So that would make her either an 1894 or 1895 issue. It also clarifies what a two post latch looks like.



I've got a few other things on the table right now. So any information and comments are appreciated.






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Slowhand
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 04:06:00 pm »

I think Numrich/Gun Parts Corp has a schematic on line.  And maybe some miscellaneous parts...

-Chris


Chris thanks for the link.

Bill
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Slowhand
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 04:07:35 pm »

Nice li'l pocket pistol there Pard!

Looks allot like my Harrington & Richardson 32 S&W Long (cylinder length is 1.234").  I also have a 2nd generation S&W 32 Lemon Squeezer that shoots 32 S&W loads that the cylinder length is .924" and the cylinder bore is .340" in both.  The OD of the brass rounds are .333" for my 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long rounds loaded up with Powder and Lead!

Hope this helps for what it's worth.

Yeti76620

Yeti76620

Thanks for the information. Every little bit helps and is appreciated.

Bill
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Slowhand
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2011, 05:23:15 pm »

"I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch..."

I haven't done in research on Iver Johson revolvers, but I didn't think your description matched the picture. The picture looks like it has one top post for the latch.  Here is a picture of mine with a two post latch.  It doesn't have the pat. dates either.

Just got a response from W. E. Goforth on another forum. He says she is a first model made in 1894. That helps out.
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Buffalow Red
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 07:14:23 am »

i CCW one of those johnsons in 38 S&W cal nice little gun
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011, 07:50:13 am »

I'm curious about your cleaning method. What are you soaking them in in that plastic bag? Is the reason for putting them in plastic because it evaporates, or just for keeping the mess to a minimum?



I had both an I & J and a H & R in .38s&w, but the I & J was called to the ministry.

Both shot well enough for my eyes. Working up a BP load for it now, and for a  Bulldog in same caliber.

RCJ
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Christopher Carson
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011, 07:55:02 am »

Just got a response from W. E. Goforth on another forum. He says she is a first model made in 1894. That helps out.


Where's Billl hangin' out these days?  I just got a 3rd model inbound, haven't seen it yet... but thought I'd update him with serial number info if he doesn't have this one accounted for already...

-Chris
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 09:39:18 am »

Where's Billl hangin' out these days?  I just got a 3rd model inbound, haven't seen it yet... but thought I'd update him with serial number info if he doesn't have this one accounted for already...

-Chris


http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=85603

I bumped into him up there.

Slowhand
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Slowhand
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 09:59:15 am »



They are in the plastic bags to prevent evaporation. I use the bags to separate parts and keep track of those grips and other bits and pieces that I don't want to lose.  I took a  Plastic Kitty Litter Container and cut the top off. I slap them all in there and store them away in between cleaning sessions.

I have a 5 gallon Bucket that I use for cleaning on the range. I spray the the cylinders and barrels down, slap them in plastic and haul them home in the bucket until I can get around to cleaning them. I stoled the idea from a guy up in North Dakota back in 83. He let me shoot a replica Colt Walker. The black stuff got up under my finger nails and layed dormant until last year when I got the urge to really get into black powder shooting. I got the collection thing going and it's been nothing but fun. 

I'm filling in the gaps from 1865 to 1960 in my collection. The question is which am I going to run out of first. Money or Safe Room?

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Christopher Carson
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 11:41:28 am »


Thanks!  -C
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2011, 04:11:51 pm »

Quote
From my research I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder.

Howdy

Not quite sure what you mean by smokeless black powder, but your IJ is definitely a Black Powder version.

There are three ways to tell the Smokeless models from the Black Powder models. On the Black Powder models, the little owl on the grips faces toward the cylinder as he does on yours. Black Powder model Iver Johnsons had a flat spring for the hammer, and the Black Powder models had cylinder stop groves that were simply triangular in shape. The bolt only engaged one side, the hand held the cylinder from turning back.

Here is a photo of my IJ Safety Hammerless, a Smokeless model. The owl is facing away from the cylinder, underneath the grips there is a coil spring that powers the hammer, and the bolt fully engages the cylinder stop slots on two edges.


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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2011, 08:49:22 am »

Like this?


* ipb-iverjohnson-topbreaka.jpg (68.35 KB, 613x823 - viewed 1056 times.)

* ipb-iverjohnson-topbreakb.jpg (20.05 KB, 230x623 - viewed 622 times.)
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2011, 10:03:54 am »

Like this?

Like that...
 Grin
Thanks

Bill
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2011, 10:49:40 am »

No problem Slowhand.  Grin
It's a lovely little revolver, mine is .38S&W
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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2011, 09:26:45 am »

Nice little S&W Break Top there.



I picked up this little gal this week at the Post Office. I bought her from a fellow in Theodosia, MO. She had spent the last 40 years or so in a shadow box on a wall.




 It's a .32 Cal, Double Action, 4th Model circa 1880-83.



I paired her up with the Iver Johnson. It's an interesting comparison.







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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 02:08:55 am »

Where's Billl hangin' out these days?  I just got a 3rd model inbound, haven't seen it yet... but thought I'd update him with serial number info if he doesn't have this one accounted for already...

-Chris


In case it's been missed Mr. Goforth passed away last Saturday
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2011, 09:04:31 am »

In case it's been missed Mr. Goforth passed away last Saturday

It hasn't been missed. There are several forums aware of his passing. Mr. Goforth will be missed. The Firearms Forum has a posting notice about it.

I've been reading his book this week. "Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Handguns 1871 - 1978" A very interesting history of the Iver Johnson Revolvers.
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Christopher Carson
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2011, 09:13:41 am »

In case it's been missed Mr. Goforth passed away last Saturday

I hadn't realized, thanks for posting.  Yes, he'll certainly be missed...

-Chris
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2011, 06:50:18 pm »

Howdy

Not quite sure what you mean by smokeless black powder, but your IJ is definitely a Black Powder version.

There are three ways to tell the Smokeless models from the Black Powder models. On the Black Powder models, the little owl on the grips faces toward the cylinder as he does on yours. Black Powder model Iver Johnsons had a flat spring for the hammer, and the Black Powder models had cylinder stop groves that were simply triangular in shape. The bolt only engaged one side, the hand held the cylinder from turning back.

Here is a photo of my IJ Safety Hammerless, a Smokeless model. The owl is facing away from the cylinder, underneath the grips there is a coil spring that powers the hammer, and the bolt fully engages the cylinder stop slots on two edges.




well mine has an owl facing the cly on one side & facing away on other side
says IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKSPAT JUN16.96AUG2 & THE DATE IS DAMAGED
so i dont know if this is black powder only or not ser#23900's
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2011, 06:55:31 pm »

so my boy has a s&W pocket pistol that was nickle but most is worn off i been thinking of getting one o them plating kits & replating it in nickle
so has anyone ever plated one of othese
if i do i might plate this one as the blueing is poor
7 they look so cool plated in nickle
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2011, 02:56:44 am »

so my boy has a s&W pocket pistol that was nickle but most is worn off i been thinking of getting one o them plating kits & replating it in nickle
so has anyone ever plated one of othese
if i do i might plate this one as the blueing is poor
7 they look so cool plated in nickle



I have several originals done in stainless, nickle and blued. I pretty much leave them in their original shape and don't do any restorations designed to put them back in the shape they were in when they were newly made.


I'm told that nickel cannot be plated directly on steel. You first have to copper plate it then plate the copper.  Have at it and let me know how it goes.

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