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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Tintypes of the Regulators 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Tintypes of the Regulators  (Read 19302 times)
Dead I
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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2010, 05:37:26 pm »

I see similarities but that don't mean anything. 
Why not?
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Dead I
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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2010, 05:41:40 pm »

Several people have PM'd me asking to see more pictures of Regulators.  Here is Josiah "Doc" Scurlock, taken at about the time of the LCW or maybe earlier when he was a Chisum cowboy. I'd guess ca. 1875.
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Dead I
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2010, 05:47:19 pm »

Sallie collected this tintype.  I think the suit is of an earlier style than others we see in her collection.  Doc liked to pose with his fist on his thigh.  Look at his upper lip...look closely.  I think you can see that his front teeth are missing, but his jaw has not collapsed yet, as it did as he matured.  I also think I can see a wound.  He had his front teeth shot out during a poker game. From evidence in the picture I think it has just happened.
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Dead I
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2010, 05:53:21 pm »

Here is another picture collected by Sallie Chisum.  It is about the fourth one I found.  I recognized the subject immediately when I saw the little picture.  It is none other than Tom O. Folliard, Billy's good friend.  There is another well known picture of  him taken when he was in his middle teens.  It had fallen from favor, but after I announced this one, that other, that looks so much like mine is now accepted again. 
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Delmonico
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2010, 06:20:19 pm »

So you ain't going to answer my question as to where you got them, any proof of what they are or if I'm the only one who doubts them. 

As you know I'm not, interesting what a little searching on a subject will turn up:

http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2518161:BlogPost:140444&xg_source=activity&page=1#comments

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santee
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« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2011, 07:11:14 am »

Dead I, why not get these to someone who can offer some substantial proof for you to carry around. If they can be authenticated and put in history books, you could stand to make some extra $$.
It would also give readers a better experience of the Lincoln County War.
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Dead I
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« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2011, 09:04:00 pm »

So you ain't going to answer my question as to where you got them:
I though for sure I answered your question about where I found these pictures.  I found them in the Glenroe Antique shop in Central Oregon.  After two years of searching I found Sallie Chisum's relatives who live in NE Oregon. I drove to their ranch. They recalled the collection and know when they were sold and why.  Essentially the family had forgotten who the people depicted were.   I showed them the collection and they recognized some of them, all Chisum family children.  I also viewed their Chisum archive and saw hundreds of unknown pictures of their family, some where of Sallie and the South Spring Ranch.  

Come to find out Sallie gave her collection to her niece not long before Sallie died in 1934. Her niece, Ara V. Chisum moved to Troutdale, Oregon in 1919.  I'm not too sure when Sallie gave Ara the collection, but I know she showed family pictures to her children. But not the bad guys.  She was embarrassed about the family's loss of the SS Ranch, and their connection with outlaws. Today the Chisum family are big time ranchers and hard workers.  Very kind and interesting people.  I have pictures of them.

After Sallie's niece died in 1974 her home was locked up.  The pictures were stored in her attic.  After two decades the place was opened up and the contents sold off.  The pictures, now forgotten were tossed into old donut boxes and sold sight unseen.  They ended up on a little antique shop down the road from my  home.  I came along and recognized who the people were.  That is  how I found Sallie Chisum's collection of LCW pictures.
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Dead I
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« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2011, 09:18:11 pm »

Dead I, why not get these to someone who can offer some substantial proof for you to carry around. If they can be authenticated and put in history books, you could stand to make some extra $$.
It would also give readers a better experience of the Lincoln County War.

  Thank you Santee.  The Chisum family recall some of the pictures.  They are ranchers and hard working cowpokes.  No "expert" will attest to the veracity of the collection because they tell me there are too many frauds around trying to peddle fake pictures, and we all know it has happened before. 

Here is what you can do for me.  If you have one of the many BTK books with pictures pick out a few that you like and tell me who you have picked out.  Then I'll find my picture of that person and post it.  Then you can become the expert and tell me if the pick is, in your opinion, authentic.

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Dead I
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« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2011, 09:28:41 pm »

Time for another picture.  This time a women.  Here is Sallie's picture of her friend, Lily Casey.  Lily was five years younger than Sallie and this is the best picture that she ever had taken.  She lived until 1946. 
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Dead I
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« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2011, 10:02:17 pm »

Many of the pictures in Sallie's collection include the name of the photographer, G.W. Morgan, embossed along the bottom of the little frame.  I drove to his home in Wisconsin. I found his personal album.  How about that!  Some of the pictures I found were of LCW people that I could recognize, such as J.J. Dolan.  I also found what I think are John Middleton and Frank McNab.  I cannot be sure however, since there are no other pictures of them to match mine too, but there is some evidence and the J.J. Dolan picture is obviously him.  Here is who I believe is Frank McNab....it's an educated guess however, but it is a Morgan picture so it has some provenance.
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Dead I
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« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2011, 10:11:32 pm »

Here's another picture of McNab....note the Morgan name embossed on the bottom.
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Dead I
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« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2011, 11:55:24 pm »

When one reads about the LCW one comes across a young Mexican boy named Yginio Salazar.  He and the kid were good friends, the Kid spending time at the young man's ranch after  his escape from the jail in Lincoln.  Yginio lived weill into the 20th Century and was a good source for Kid tales.  Yginio spoke Spanish, but so did the Kid.  The young man was 15 when severly wounded when McSween was killed.  The following picture was collected by Sallie, and I think it must be Yginio Salazar.
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Dead I
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« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2011, 12:00:29 am »

A fifteen year old Hispanic boy.  A deep wound on his forehead that has not totally healed.  Nicely dressed.  Collected by Sallie Chisum.  It is most likely Yginio Salazar.  There are other photos of  him showing him in his 40's and then in his 70's.  His appearance changed, but it does from 15 to 40 and to 70, but there is evidence that this is the young man.  Why else would Sallie collect it?
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Dead I
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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2011, 02:15:24 pm »

A quick bit about "documentation about the LCW I found". Most pictures of BTK related people come with a long line of documentation.  The picture was owned by so and so and then such and such, etc...  There is no such documentation concerning the pictures I have because I found them.  I bought them from a little antique shop.  There person who sold them had no idea who they were of.  I did find how they arrived at the store however.  Sallie Chisum's relatives had stored the pictures and then sold them, sight unseen in a yard sale when they cleaned out Walter Pitzer Chisum's daughter's attic two decades after she died.  A "picker" found them in donut boxes along with a bunch of other stuff, wrapping paper, etc... at the yard sale and sold them to the owner of the store where I found them.  The women who owns the store dug through the boxes and came across the little tintypes and put them out for sale.  I came alone and found them.  There is no documentation. 
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Rube Burrows
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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2011, 03:52:15 pm »

A quick bit about "documentation about the LCW I found". Most pictures of BTK related people come with a long line of documentation.  The picture was owned by so and so and then such and such, etc...  There is no such documentation concerning the pictures I have because I found them.  I bought them from a little antique shop.  There person who sold them had no idea who they were of.  I did find how they arrived at the store however.  Sallie Chisum's relatives had stored the pictures and then sold them, sight unseen in a yard sale when they cleaned out Walter Pitzer Chisum's daughter's attic two decades after she died.  A "picker" found them in donut boxes along with a bunch of other stuff, wrapping paper, etc... at the yard sale and sold them to the owner of the store where I found them.  The women who owns the store dug through the boxes and came across the little tintypes and put them out for sale.  I came alone and found them.  There is no documentation. 


Any of us who have been following your posts know your story and where you say you got them. Its a nice story and if true such a lucky find. I will not talk negative about the pictures. They are very neat no matter who they are. If everything is on the up and up and you have the relationship with the Chisum family that you say you do. Would it not be worth it to you to contact them again and set something up so you can get something in writing on some family letterhead or SOMETHING to prove what you say is truth? It would end lots of the speculation from some people.

I think the bad feeling some people get is that you are pushing so hard for some people in the pics to be who you want them to be. Lots of wishful thinking and lots of speculation. Some people are just not buying.

I by no means have enough experience in the subject or the photos to know if they are whom you say they are.

Your merging the collection does not help your case any either.

I enjoy reading your post and enjoy looking at the pics. Whoever they are.
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Dead I
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2011, 02:05:04 pm »

All your points are well taken, Mr. Burrows.  The Chisum relatives live on a huge ranch on the border of Oregon and Idaho.  They llive miles miles from town.  They are hard nosed, but pleasant cowboys and their wives.  They work cattle from horseback.  I'll attached some  pictures of them.  Sitting in their living room after a days work and discussing their history and the collection makes me uneasy. Yeah, I guess I could break out a piece of paper and ask them to say something, but they'd say "why?"  Here are some of them:   
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Dead I
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2011, 02:09:16 pm »

Cowboys at work.  These men are either relatives of Sallie Chisum, or cowboys working for those relatives.  They bare no foolishness.
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Dead I
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2011, 02:46:34 pm »

The family are blood relatives to Walter Pitzer Chisum.   Only Sallie's niece's son recalls seeing the pictures.  He is nearly 90.  They had been hidden away since the 1930's, which is how they were forgotten.  They had not been seen for about 80 years. 
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Dead I
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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2011, 05:30:33 pm »

Here is a picture of the little display case where I found most of the tintypes from Sallie Chisum's collection of pictures.  Do you see the little shelving unit along the far wall?  That's where found most of the pictures. Others were strung over the store in different little bins. 
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Tintypes of the Regulators « previous next »
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