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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderator: Cuts Crooked)  |  Topic: Powder Load for Pietta 1851 in .44 cal? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Powder Load for Pietta 1851 in .44 cal?  (Read 5034 times)
WaddWatsonEllis
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« on: April 07, 2010, 02:32:11 am »


My Pietta manual says that the max load for both the .36 & .44 Cal 1851 Pietta Colts are 15 grains ... kinda hard to believe ... is that what Y'all are loading?

Thanks!
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 03:22:06 am »

The Pietta manual is full of doo doo when if comes to the powder loads.  The loads they list are so underpowered that the bullet barely escapes the barrel.  For the .36, anything from 15 grains to a full chamber will work just fine, and for the .44 anything from 20 to 30 grains should work well.
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 06:53:52 am »

FWIW I shoot 31 grn. 3F in my 60 army's at every shoot. Lube wad, and bore butter. No binding, lots of smoke, & fire. Max knock down. YEEHAW!!!     Jed
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 09:12:41 am »

Steel frame or brass frame?

Brass: 15-20grs powder

Steel: 15-30grs
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 09:32:52 am »

Hellgate,

Good point!

Blue Steel ... and I should mention that this will just be for reenactments ... whenever I want to really shoot with lead ammo, I will use my Ruger Old Armys ...

But still, I have made it to 60 with ten functioning fingers, and do not want to pick up the monniker lefty in these 'Golden Years'
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 11:19:51 am »

Ellis, you may want ot bookmark this Loading Data website for all your black powder charges by caliber and type of firearm ...
http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

In fact Cuts as a suggestion, this would make an excellent Sticky!
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 11:35:06 am »

If all you are shooting is blanks for reenactments then you could be much more generous with the powder charges.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 02:43:35 pm »

Didn't say it was fer blanks. Huh Kaint hurt nuttin wth that, no matter how much you stuff in it Smiley
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"Jed Cooper" aka: Dave Hollandsworth

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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 02:49:23 am »

Ellis, you may want ot bookmark this Loading Data website for all your black powder charges by caliber and type of firearm ...
http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

In fact Cuts as a suggestion, this would make an excellent Sticky!

Actually I think I'll put the link in the Dark Arts library. Thanx John  Boy!
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2010, 08:13:22 am »

26 grs by weight of FFg.
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 09:33:39 am »

I already had that one bookmarked!  (Along with a 'puter full a stuff!)
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 09:44:13 am »

Cuts Crooked,

The site is now on my favorites list ... Thanks!

And as I understand it, Pietta has itself covered for litigation by listing such a mouse-f-rt  maximum load ... so that if anyone was loading something larger, they would give the Italian Shrug, and say that the shooter was loading more than the 15 Grains listed as max in their operating instructions ...

Or am I missing something here?

I more like Ruger's instructions ... they simply state that one cannot put enough black powder and black powder clone ammo in the cylinder to do it harm ....


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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2010, 01:07:34 pm »

That is pretty much the reason for that listed load, and here is why.  Combined with the sometimes ridiculously undersized chambers compared to groove depth, that small amount of powder plus extra space in the rifling means that the gun can be fired a good many times without using lube or cleaning the barrel before dangerous pressures can build up and do some damage.  It's "idiot insurance" for the company.
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2010, 07:33:08 pm »

Deadguy,

Kinda what I figured ... it does not make me feel okay about the mettalurgy of the gun; I like Ruger's stance on the ROA that you can't pack enough black powder in the cylinders to cause any damage ...

So I will shoot blanks through the Pietta and use the Rugers if I want to put lead downrange ...
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 08:42:36 am »

The Piettas will handle any black powder load you may want to try. Any damage from heavy loads will be to the wedge and/or arbor.
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2010, 08:49:18 am »

Noz,

Thanks ... I wanted to have the information before ordering pouring spouts for my powder flasks .... so I will probably order 30 Grains for the blanks in the Pietta, and 40 grains for the Ruger powder flasks ...


* Powder Flasks.jpg (20.08 KB, 333x350 - viewed 104 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2010, 05:37:11 pm »

Howdy WaddWatsonEllis,

And WELCOME!

That's one great photo of those flasks.  May we please expect more of similar quality.

Yes!  The ROAs are STRONG!  I shoot a brace of old ones with brass backstraps and squareback trigger guards.  Love 'em.

I also shoot a brace of 1860 open tops.  So, I'm well aware of the strength differences in pistols.

Glad to have you aboard.

DD-DLoS
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2010, 06:47:10 pm »

Dear Dick Dastardly,

First, thank you very much for the welcome ...

The flasks were from a site where I was looking for measuring tubes ... wish I could take credit, but all I did was copy it.

I did find a tiny flask ... 'twas made to refill flintlock charges ... but with reboring and retapping the threads, I think it would be perfect for a 'round town flask, holding probably six rounds worth of powder .... I wil put a thirty grain measuring spout and keep it for reenactments ... but I really thought it would be nice cause it would just fit into a belt cap n ball pouch for the Pietta ...
like the one shown below ....


* Mini Powder Flask.1.jpg (6.08 KB, 160x120 - viewed 98 times.)

* 1849er-400 Purdy Gear.jpg (18.6 KB, 400x285 - viewed 135 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2010, 06:52:32 am »

WWE, If that is a 10, or 15 grn. spout, why try to change it? jus charge it either 2 or 3 times to get the desired amount of powder. It looks cool the way it is, and doesn't take up  as much room as the long spout.   Jed     ps That is some fine looking leather you got there.
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"Jed Cooper" aka: Dave Hollandsworth

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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2010, 08:00:48 am »

Jed, 

Thank you for your thoughts and complements ...

I have thought about just keeping the 15 grain spout and yes, one could probably just retain the present spout and fill it twice for each cylinder ... but that would mean 12 refills to reload the entire cylinder, and I don't think I want to go that route ... and the larger spout will mean have to be considered in a cap n ball belt pouch for sure ....

Now the leather ... that pic is from the Purdy Leather onsite catalog ... she has not returned my emails, so I had a holster made by Will Ghormley. It is a California Slim Jim like the one shown, but the carving is a duplicate of an original made by Maine & Winchester, the pattern taken from one shown in the book, 'Packing Iron'...

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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2010, 08:41:13 am »

And here is a pic of mine on a Belt by Chuck Burrows and a Crazy Crowe Belduque ....

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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2010, 05:49:24 pm »

Now, that's one cool lookin' original rig.  No "tie downs"  there.

Thanks for posting.

DD-DLoS
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2010, 06:23:12 pm »

WWE,

Very, very nice! I'm envious.

Deadeye Dick
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2010, 07:33:42 pm »

Deadeye and Dastardly,

My spanish is purely 'Tex-Mex'- if that good.

As a docent, I have this fear that someone might get upset with that, and use any other obvious fault in my kit as fuel in the fire.

So I try to make my outfit as real looking as I can get and hope that what is coming will be as painless as possible.

But thank you for your kind thoughts ... I look forward to when I get my Botas de Alas (leather leggings worn while riding in much the same way as chaps) and large Belduque (almost 12" blade) to tuck down inside the Botas ... I should be pretty set up then ...

Although there is this pepperbox I saw ...


* pepperbox pistol.jpg (31.37 KB, 500x376 - viewed 121 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
NCOWS #3403
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