Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 19, 2014, 01:51:46 am

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  GENERAL TOPICS  |  Books & Movies (Moderator: Texas Lawdog)  |  Topic: the evolution of the western genre 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: the evolution of the western genre  (Read 2207 times)
kcub
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


« on: March 26, 2010, 12:02:38 pm »


You have the early silent film days where the actual western era was drawing to its close.

Then you have the John Wayne era of the 50's, 60's and into the 70's.

Some splinters during the latter part of this era were the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns with Clint Eastwood's new type of good guy that wasn't exactly 100% good.  Eastwood evolved a semblance of this character in as late as Unforgiven.

Also the Peckinpah splinter which I'd have to think about more to characterize accurately.

Silverado and Dances with Wolves kept it current in their relatively  recent day.

Latter day offerings are getting more edgy and indy like Assassination of Jesse James and the Proposition.

Personally, I love 'em all.
Logged
Stillwater
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 546


« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2010, 11:27:34 pm »

If movies continue like "Open Range" and "Broken Trail," we're in for some good movies.

Personally I thought the "Assassination of Jesse James" was an exercise in movie boredom...!

Bill
Logged
Duke York
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 51


« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2010, 11:40:11 pm »

I had long looked forward to seeing "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" The film had great sets, costuming, period correct firearms including some USFA sixguns etc.

But I was terribly disappointed, it was one one the most boring movies I have ever paid good money to see.

The best Frank & Jesse movie by far is the 1980 Walter Hill directed "Long Riders" with the Keach, Carradine, Quaid and Guest brothers portraying the James,Younger, Miller and Ford brothers. This film is a classic.

Duke York

Logged
Stillwater
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 546


« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 11:52:50 pm »

I had long looked forward to seeing "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" The film had great sets, costuming, period correct firearms including some USFA sixguns etc.

But I was terribly disappointed, it was one one the most boring movies I have ever paid good money to see.

The best Frank & Jesse movie by far is the 1980 Walter Hill directed "Long Riders" with the Keach, Carradine, Quaid and Guest brothers portraying the James,Younger, Miller and Ford brothers. This film is a classic.

Duke York



The "Long Riders," would have been a good movie, if they would have left the saloon knife fight scene out. That was so fake, it was silly.

Bill
Logged
kcub
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 06:52:17 am »

Regarding the Assassination of JJ, anyone expecting the usual white hats vs. black hats and a lot of missed shots from galloping mobs will be disappointed.  And you might want for more action but you can expect great acting, great cinematography, and an interesting Greek tragedy in Jesse's personal demons, struggle with suicide, and ultimate dance of death.  I personally liked the way the gunplay worked being haphazardly wrought from fear, cowardice, paranoia, intimidation, and hot blooded feud.
It's a beautiful period film with a beautiful soundtrack by Nick Cage using mostly just piano and violin, perfect for the western melodrama.

I liked Long Riders but didn't care for the silly jaw harp song on the train ride.

Notice how every JJ movie is either overly compressed and grossly inaccurate or just covers one small piece of his story in detail.

What needs to happen is for HBO to put a mini series together telling the James Bros. entire incredible life story as near to history as possible bringing their full array of resources and talents to bear.
Logged
Harley Starr
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 927



« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 12:47:02 am »

It would be interesting to see an HBO miniseries about the James brothers, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
We all know how it goes in Hollyweird these days. You know Sam Elliot said in an interview that Hollywood tends to look down their nose(s) at the genre.
If fact even Sergio Leone had an interesting nickname for Hollywood.
He called it "Hollywoodn't".
Logged

"I went out there"
"In search of experience"
"To taste and to touch"
"And to feel as much"
"As a man can"
"Before he repents"
Johnny Cash-- The Wanderer
Twitchy
Active citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 40


« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 03:51:43 am »

I actually liked the assasination of Jesse James too. It certainly was not like a "formula " western but I thought the actor playing Bob Ford did a rgeat job at playing a creepy pathetic individual yearning for validation.  I really liked the gunfight in the bedroom. Also not very close to "formula" but having seen and investigated a few gunfights, it was refreshing to see one prtrayed when everything doesnt go right. 
Logged
Drayton Calhoun
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1005



« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 08:13:53 pm »

Texas Rangers with Dylan McDermott as Leander McNelly was pretty good. Seraphim Falls was good too, just kinda weird in spots.
Logged

The first step of becoming a good shooter is knowing which end the bullet comes out of and being on the other end.
Harley Starr
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 927



« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 08:42:51 pm »

Quote
Seraphim Falls was good too, just kinda weird in spots.

Yeah that movie certainly took a turn toward the surreal as it progressed.

The movie does make one wonder if the two characters were already dead by the time of the conclusion.
Logged

"I went out there"
"In search of experience"
"To taste and to touch"
"And to feel as much"
"As a man can"
"Before he repents"
Johnny Cash-- The Wanderer
kcub
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 11:59:17 am »

I wouldn't necessarily equate HBO to Hollywood.

In fact, they would probably take offense to that notion.

They stepped out of the box to create multi-year series like Deadwood, Rome, and the Sopranos.
Logged
The Elderly Kid
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 01:40:24 pm »

It's interesting to study how the "look" of Westerns has evolved. In the early William S. Hart silents the action and dialogue (delivered on printed cards) were hokey and strained, but the sets and costumes were very authentic. After all, they were depicting events of only a few years earlier and much of the audience would have been familiar with the real thing. Then came the singing-cowboy silliness and as the 40s progressed into the 50s, the look got more stylized with cavalry in white hats, cowboys in ironed shirts and tailored clothes, everyone clean with pearly teeth, totally unrealistic. Then came the spaghettis with a return to authenticity, grittiness, rattletrap towns, stained teeth - the look was authentic though the action was almost as stylized as in the silents. Finally, in the late 60s, movies like "The Professsionals," "The Wild Bunch" and many others brought us authentic, meticulously researched backgrounds, costumes, and so forth together with realistic stories, action and dialogue, at least in the best productions. That's where the Western remains to this day.
Logged
Drayton Calhoun
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1005



« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 06:18:02 pm »

From all I have read, the trend toward historical accuracy is gaining momemtum. Supposedly, Val Kilmer drove the producers nuts in Tombstone because he insisted in period correct clothing and accessories. True accuracy in motion pictures both in wardrobe and weapons is great, in people even more so. The Earps were not saints, nor were they totally evil. Even JJ wasn't totally evil nor was the Robin Hood many would like to portray him as. They were human beings and being such are complicated, not entirely black or white, just shades of gray. JJ was credited with stating the they were "victims of circumstance" and "products of society". In many ways this is totally true. The Civil War was, as all wars tend to be, a catylist for bringing out the best and worst in people. We look to the Old West as a simpler time, when right was right and wrong was wrong. That is our perception, when the truth is, things were called what they were and political correctness had not even been thought of.
Logged

The first step of becoming a good shooter is knowing which end the bullet comes out of and being on the other end.
maarty
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 70


« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2010, 10:23:39 pm »

things were called what they were and political correctness had not even been thought of.

That's how things should be, call them as you see them and if it offends someone then that's their problem, they need thicker skin if they can't handle someone elses opinion.
Logged
Stillwater
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 546


« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 01:24:10 am »

That's how things should be, call them as you see them and if it offends someone then that's their problem, they need thicker skin if they can't handle someone elses opinion.

True, they may need a thicker skin in some areas. However, properly expressing a differing opinion can stop a lot of bickering.

Bill
Logged
Drayton Calhoun
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1005



« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 11:21:38 pm »

True, they may need a thicker skin in some areas. However, properly expressing a differing opinion can stop a lot of bickering.

Bill
Absolutely, tact should never be confused with PC.
Logged

The first step of becoming a good shooter is knowing which end the bullet comes out of and being on the other end.
Harley Starr
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 927



« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 12:04:57 am »

Absolutely, tact should never be confused with PC.

Amen to that. Wink
Logged

"I went out there"
"In search of experience"
"To taste and to touch"
"And to feel as much"
"As a man can"
"Before he repents"
Johnny Cash-- The Wanderer
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Online Online

Posts: 4573



« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2011, 11:58:40 am »

I am watching a discount DVD with 12 old John Wayne films from 1933 to 1946.  JOHN WAYNE The Great American Legend.

I watched RAINBOW VALLEY from 1935 and ANGEL & THE BADMAN from 1946.  My greatest impression is the leaness of all of the actors. Next was the simplicity of the plots followed by the amateur action choreography.  In the earlier film Wayne wore a laced buscadero rig, while by 1946 he used a simple mexican loop holster on a plainer cartridge belt.  The horsemanship was much better than in modern films. Harry Carey stole the show in Angel & the Badman!

No singing, 'though!

Rainbow Valley featured an "automobile" named Nell.  There was a portrait of T.R. in the post office.

I found a writeup on the "Angel and the Badman" rig at legendsinleather. The older rig is their "Star Packer";

http://www.legendsinleather.com/
Logged

NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  GENERAL TOPICS  |  Books & Movies (Moderator: Texas Lawdog)  |  Topic: the evolution of the western genre « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.061 seconds with 21 queries.