the evolution of the western genre

[kcub]

You have the early silent film days where the actual western era was drawing to its close.

Then you have the John Wayne era of the 50's, 60's and into the 70's.

Some splinters during the latter part of this era were the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns with Clint Eastwood's new type of good guy that wasn't exactly 100% good.  Eastwood evolved a semblance of this character in as late as Unforgiven.

Also the Peckinpah splinter which I'd have to think about more to characterize accurately.

Silverado and Dances with Wolves kept it current in their relatively  recent day.

Latter day offerings are getting more edgy and indy like Assassination of Jesse James and the Proposition.

Personally, I love 'em all.

[Stillwater]

If movies continue like "Open Range" and "Broken Trail," we're in for some good movies.

Personally I thought the "Assassination of Jesse James" was an exercise in movie boredom...!

Bill

[Duke York]

I had long looked forward to seeing "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" The film had great sets, costuming, period correct firearms including some USFA sixguns etc.

But I was terribly disappointed, it was one one the most boring movies I have ever paid good money to see.

The best Frank & Jesse movie by far is the 1980 Walter Hill directed "Long Riders" with the Keach, Carradine, Quaid and Guest brothers portraying the James,Younger, Miller and Ford brothers. This film is a classic.

Duke York

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[Stillwater]

I had long looked forward to seeing "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" The film had great sets, costuming, period correct firearms including some USFA sixguns etc.

But I was terribly disappointed, it was one one the most boring movies I have ever paid good money to see.

The best Frank & Jesse movie by far is the 1980 Walter Hill directed "Long Riders" with the Keach, Carradine, Quaid and Guest brothers portraying the James,Younger, Miller and Ford brothers. This film is a classic.

Duke York

The "Long Riders," would have been a good movie, if they would have left the saloon knife fight scene out. That was so fake, it was silly.

Bill

[kcub]

Regarding the Assassination of JJ, anyone expecting the usual white hats vs. black hats and a lot of missed shots from galloping mobs will be disappointed.  And you might want for more action but you can expect great acting, great cinematography, and an interesting Greek tragedy in Jesse's personal demons, struggle with suicide, and ultimate dance of death.  I personally liked the way the gunplay worked being haphazardly wrought from fear, cowardice, paranoia, intimidation, and hot blooded feud.
It's a beautiful period film with a beautiful soundtrack by Nick Cage using mostly just piano and violin, perfect for the western melodrama.

I liked Long Riders but didn't care for the silly jaw harp song on the train ride.

Notice how every JJ movie is either overly compressed and grossly inaccurate or just covers one small piece of his story in detail.

What needs to happen is for HBO to put a mini series together telling the James Bros. entire incredible life story as near to history as possible bringing their full array of resources and talents to bear.

[Harley Starr]

It would be interesting to see an HBO miniseries about the James brothers, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
We all know how it goes in Hollyweird these days. You know Sam Elliot said in an interview that Hollywood tends to look down their nose(s) at the genre.
If fact even Sergio Leone had an interesting nickname for Hollywood.
He called it "Hollywoodn't".

[Twitchy]

I actually liked the assasination of Jesse James too. It certainly was not like a "formula " western but I thought the actor playing Bob Ford did a rgeat job at playing a creepy pathetic individual yearning for validation.  I really liked the gunfight in the bedroom. Also not very close to "formula" but having seen and investigated a few gunfights, it was refreshing to see one prtrayed when everything doesnt go right. 

[Drayton Calhoun]

Texas Rangers with Dylan McDermott as Leander McNelly was pretty good. Seraphim Falls was good too, just kinda weird in spots.

[Harley Starr]

Seraphim Falls was good too, just kinda weird in spots.

Yeah that movie certainly took a turn toward the surreal as it progressed.

The movie does make one wonder if the two characters were already dead by the time of the conclusion.

[kcub]

I wouldn't necessarily equate HBO to Hollywood.

In fact, they would probably take offense to that notion.

They stepped out of the box to create multi-year series like Deadwood, Rome, and the Sopranos.

[The Elderly Kid]

It's interesting to study how the "look" of Westerns has evolved. In the early William S. Hart silents the action and dialogue (delivered on printed cards) were hokey and strained, but the sets and costumes were very authentic. After all, they were depicting events of only a few years earlier and much of the audience would have been familiar with the real thing. Then came the singing-cowboy silliness and as the 40s progressed into the 50s, the look got more stylized with cavalry in white hats, cowboys in ironed shirts and tailored clothes, everyone clean with pearly teeth, totally unrealistic. Then came the spaghettis with a return to authenticity, grittiness, rattletrap towns, stained teeth - the look was authentic though the action was almost as stylized as in the silents. Finally, in the late 60s, movies like "The Professsionals," "The Wild Bunch" and many others brought us authentic, meticulously researched backgrounds, costumes, and so forth together with realistic stories, action and dialogue, at least in the best productions. That's where the Western remains to this day.

[Drayton Calhoun]

From all I have read, the trend toward historical accuracy is gaining momemtum. Supposedly, Val Kilmer drove the producers nuts in Tombstone because he insisted in period correct clothing and accessories. True accuracy in motion pictures both in wardrobe and weapons is great, in people even more so. The Earps were not saints, nor were they totally evil. Even JJ wasn't totally evil nor was the Robin Hood many would like to portray him as. They were human beings and being such are complicated, not entirely black or white, just shades of gray. JJ was credited with stating the they were "victims of circumstance" and "products of society". In many ways this is totally true. The Civil War was, as all wars tend to be, a catylist for bringing out the best and worst in people. We look to the Old West as a simpler time, when right was right and wrong was wrong. That is our perception, when the truth is, things were called what they were and political correctness had not even been thought of.

[maarty]

things were called what they were and political correctness had not even been thought of.

That's how things should be, call them as you see them and if it offends someone then that's their problem, they need thicker skin if they can't handle someone elses opinion.

[Stillwater]

That's how things should be, call them as you see them and if it offends someone then that's their problem, they need thicker skin if they can't handle someone elses opinion.

True, they may need a thicker skin in some areas. However, properly expressing a differing opinion can stop a lot of bickering.

Bill

[Drayton Calhoun]

True, they may need a thicker skin in some areas. However, properly expressing a differing opinion can stop a lot of bickering.

Bill

Absolutely, tact should never be confused with PC.

[Harley Starr]

Absolutely, tact should never be confused with PC.

Amen to that.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I am watching a discount DVD with 12 old John Wayne films from 1933 to 1946.  JOHN WAYNE The Great American Legend.

I watched RAINBOW VALLEY from 1935 and ANGEL & THE BADMAN from 1946.  My greatest impression is the leaness of all of the actors. Next was the simplicity of the plots followed by the amateur action choreography.  In the earlier film Wayne wore a laced buscadero rig, while by 1946 he used a simple mexican loop holster on a plainer cartridge belt.  The horsemanship was much better than in modern films. Harry Carey stole the show in Angel & the Badman!

No singing, 'though!

Rainbow Valley featured an "automobile" named Nell.  There was a portrait of T.R. in the post office.

I found a writeup on the "Angel and the Badman" rig at legendsinleather. The older rig is their "Star Packer";

http://www.legendsinleather.com/