Ladder Frame Sight on a Lever Action?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

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Hi,

I was watching 'The Streets of Laredo' the other day, and Captain Woodrow Call pulls out what looks like a Winchester (Marlin?) lever action and it has a ladder sight a la Spencer and Rolling Block rifle style. What is more interesting was that the rear sight was not mounted on the tang, but where the normal 'buckhorn' rear sight would be mounted.

Was this just another 'Hollywood-ism' or were there actually lever actions around like this one?

[Shotgun Franklin]

I'm sure it was a W-W clone. Historically you could custom order nearly anything you wanted on a W-W rifle. I know I've seen original Henry's with a ladder sight.
IMO, with any revolver cartridge it's just not practical. The longest range  I've shoot my '73 at is 100 yards and the drop was very noticeable.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Shotgun,

I don't know what round he was firing, and it would be interesting to know ... if I remember right, it was not a Henry (no brass), so would have to be a Winchester or Marling ... it did look like a '73 though ....

I was thinking that the position on top of the barrel would be very perilous for a ladder sight when in a scabbard ... but again, who is to know?

[Ranch 13]

No not a hollyweird invention. Ladder sights were common on rifles in the late 1800's, and Winchester even continued to put them on 94 carbines up until about WWII

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Ranch,

They still make tang mounted ladder sights for the Winchesters ... but this one was mounted up forward where the spring-and-leaf buckhorn sights were normally mounted. I had never seen one mounted so far forward (i.e. on the barrel).

But I guess they are right; if someone like Capt Woodrow Call wanted a rifle with said sights, someone (either the company or a gunsmith) was gonna fill the need and make it for him ....

[Ranch 13]

 Yes that's what I told you. They were barrel mounted ladder sights, and quite common up until WWII.
Buffalo Arms has several modern copies of them on their web.
 Just for kicks and grins and lot of learnin go to Cornell Publishing and buy a handfull of reprints of old catalogs, tons of excellent information contained in those books.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Ranch,

Thanks for the info!  If I had a .30-.30 or some such where distance accuracy an not quick sight fixation (i.e., like SASS) was not the challenge, I would start looking for one of those sights ... but for .45 Schofield in a '73 Winchester at 30-50 feet, I guess I will keep the buckhorns ....

[Ranch 13]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,234.html

You don't have to stand them up.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Ranch,

My Uberti Winchester '73 is a tack driver at the distance we shoot with the 'Buckhorn' sights that come with them. And I am one of those 'if-it-works-don't-fix-it' type of guys.

But if I ever get a Model 92 or some such with a high power rifle round, I now have the Buffalo Arms website in my 'Favorites'!

[Shotgun Franklin]

I use a Buckhorn sight on my Marlin .38-55 and just love it. I use it for hunting and it's the easiest iron sight I've ever used. From a bench rest I've shot groups under 2". And yep, I use the same sight on my Saa and truck guns.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

My new-to-me Uberti Henry (thanks again, OCB!) has a barrel-mounted flip-up ladder sight, and I have seen the same sight on some Uberti 66's.  When down, the base has a regular notch sight that's great for any distance we're likely to shoot in a main match.

Haven't yet tried using it for long(er) range shots.  I suspect that the cowboy loads I use will have a trajectory like a basketball.

-- Nighteyes

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Remember the scene in LONESOME DOVE, where Gus shoots the buffalo hunter?

I've heard a few suggestions about holding a similar match at extreme pistol calibre range.  The proposed name was the GUS.

Similar ladder sights used to be regular equipment on carbines initially designed with cavalry use in mind.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Remember the scene in LONESOME DOVE, where Gus shoots the buffalo hunter?

I've heard a few suggestions about holding a similar match at extreme pistol calibre range.  The proposed name was the GUS.

Similar ladder sights used to be regular equipment on carbines initially designed with cavalry use in mind.

The match sounds like a good idea, but you'd need a dead horse for the shooters to lie behind... 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Daniel,

Now if you limited that dead horse to a Model 66, you could call it the 'Tribute to a Bad Man' .... or the Jimmy Cagney ...*S*

[Delmonico]

Remember the scene in LONESOME DOVE, where Gus shoots the buffalo hunter?

I've heard a few suggestions about holding a similar match at extreme pistol calibre range.  The proposed name was the GUS.

Similar ladder sights used to be regular equipment on carbines initially designed with cavalry use in mind.

Despite what was said in an earlier post, any of these rifles or handguns can hit at long distance.  Staff officer class at the GAF Muster (pistol only class) was won by a Staff Officer who hit steel several times at 175 yards.  Kentucky Windage is what it's called, any one want to stand 400 yards away from me with my old Nylon 66, and that's a puny little 22LR.

Now this would be a better thing to hide behind for a Gus match, we all know how he was fond of his pigs:



(Sorry Sir Charles, took too much work to post it only once.)

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I could use a good Henry!

[Daniel Nighteyes]

any one want to stand 400 yards away from me with my old Nylon 66, and that's a puny little 22LR.

Nope, 'cause with my scoped bolt-action .22LR I can hit anything I can see out to about 500 yards.... as long as the wind isn't blowing too hard.  In fact, I have seriously p*ssed off some high-power rifle shooters by hitting targets they couldn't.

(And I loved every second of it, too! )

[Delmonico]

Most folks don't know tat the 22 LR was developed for 200 yard off hand shooting.   The trajectory of that round is not a lot different than the black powder pistol rounds, provided you use the proper bullet weight, not those little short gumdrop bullets.

[Ranch 13]

 It only takes about 36-37 points elevation on the staff of the soule sight on my 22 lowall to make 300 yds.

[Delmonico]

It only takes about 36-37 points elevation on the staff of the soule sight on my 22 lowall to make 300 yds.

All it takes is a bit of understanding of trajectory, even shotguns have some out past 50 yards.  Amount depends on the size of the shot. 

[Ranch 13]

 the thing that's the real head scratcher for me, is the 45-70, and 40-65 take 60-70 points to get the same target.

[Delmonico]

the thing that's the real head scratcher for me, is the 45-70, and 40-65 take 60-70 points to get the same target.

I don't have a table handy, but doesn't the 22LR shoot flatter out to about 300 yards than the other rounds? 

[Ranch 13]

 Well apparently going by the sight setting's it shoots twice as flat.

[Delmonico]

Well apparently going by the sight setting's it shoots twice as flat.

Found a table on-line, and with the 405 it is the other way around.  Who knows, as long as you can hit the target no big deal.   Just set the sightw where they need to be.  Wait, these low powered rounds ain't good beyond a 100 yards, forgot that.

[Forty Rod]

The match sounds like a good idea, but you'd need a dead horse for the shooters to lie behind... 

There have been enough of them beaten around here so we'd never run out.