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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Cutting Edge (Moderator: St. George)  |  Topic: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP  (Read 36336 times)
Josh Dabney
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« Reply #150 on: April 03, 2010, 11:02:41 pm »

Many times when the end of the wire is near an area where it has to go over a curve in the wood shape it will pop back up on the end that you began with and need to be put back down.   When this happens you've got to work the wire so it forms to the curve of the wood.  If thick enough a couple swats toward the end will sink it but it will be under tension to pop back out on one end or the other so it needs to be "worked" to shape going slowly towards the end with many light taps.




At this stage I really started thinking the design was just a little too busy.  And I didn't really like that the pattern on the butt end reminded me of the Nike Swoosh, LOL.  So I compared with my original pattern and made some changes to un-clutter things just a little and improve the flow.



Here I've penciled the changes directly on the handle



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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #151 on: April 03, 2010, 11:13:25 pm »

When doing wire work I like to leave my handle big enough that I'm good to skim a few thousandths off the entire surface to level everything out when done but this area I decided was still just a bit too thick so I marked out the area to be cut down with the file prior to installing the scroll.



Here she is cut down and ready to redraw and install the wire.



This is one of those make or break ya moments that causes ya to sweat bullets.  You should be able to see that my chisle broke off while cutting the scroll.  Digging out a piece of the chisel without mangling up the surrounding wood can be a chore.  I worked on this piece for a good 20 minutes to get it out LUCKILY without damage.



I tried several different exacto blades and one of the other chisels trying to get it out with no luck before tying out one of my scrimshaw tools that won the battle.

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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #152 on: April 03, 2010, 11:27:48 pm »

Now I'm down a chisel  Angry  And the most important one, the skinniest  Cry  Whatever will I do Huh?   Have to make another'n  I reckon  Grin

You've got to take it easy grinding on these blades because they are heat treated and any overheating will temper them to the point of being too soft to be any good so you've got to go SLOW and dunk it in water every couple seconds or so.  Otherwise it's no problem.




Now that I've got the wire done on this side I went ahead and gave it the first soaking of what I believe you Pards may call Vinegaroon.  2 OOOO steel wool pads disolved into a quart of white vinegar.   Although I screwed up the recipe I did learn it's use from our very own Chuck Burrows,  Thanks for that tip Chuck !  Grin    In laymans terms this stuff reacts with the wood to assist in bringing out the natural chatoyance of the curly maple.  My purpose right now is just to swell the grain of the wood to tighten it up on the wire.  I will do this 3 or 4 more times before all is said and done but this is good for now.  It's also worth noting that this concotion will etch or stain the steel so I soak it down good and be sure to wipe the steel dry !


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Dave Cole
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« Reply #153 on: April 03, 2010, 11:31:28 pm »

It's coming along nicely there, bud. Your also doing a great job on the WIP.The cool thing about WIP's is you will encourage some to make knives and discourage others from making knives, but the collectors see what trials and tribulations we makers have to go through to get the knife out.Talk with ya later bud.Dave Grin
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #154 on: April 03, 2010, 11:37:44 pm »

Now it's time for the magic to happen,  LOL

Transferring our wire pattern from the completed side to the other side.

We start with taping a piece of tracing paper to our completed side and tracing the wire with a pencil.  I also put a dot in the center of each pin to verify allignment on side #2



Now we pull the pattern and tape it to the other side.  You'll note that the pencil side of the tracing paper is now against the wood.  Get it taped in place then trace over the pattern with a ball point ink pen to complete the tranfer.





Now although the carbon from the pencil tranferred to the handle we still need to re-draw the pattern on the wood and make any minor adjustments needed

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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #155 on: April 03, 2010, 11:46:55 pm »

That's all for tonights installment Pards  Grin

That also pretty much covers the silver wire inlay until both sides are completed and we move on to the finishing stages of the handle.  Tomorrow will be more of the same installing the wire on side #2 but I'll have my camera handy just in case I run into anything interesting during the install  Wink

Thanks again fer followin along Pards and please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Dave,  I sure hope nobody get's discouraged, LOL.   I always enjoy others wip's so I picked this one as it encompases such a variety of techniques to show.   It's alotta work but folks sure seem to be enjoying it which makes it all worth while to me  Grin

-Josh
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GunClick Rick
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« Reply #156 on: April 03, 2010, 11:59:35 pm »

I ain't got the words man,that is fantastic!!!!!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley Josh thanks alot for lettin us watch...
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Curley Cole
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« Reply #157 on: April 04, 2010, 12:28:17 am »

STUFF LIKE THAT JUST KNOCKS MY SOCKS OFF....
(typed that in caps just to let you know how entusatic I was about that...)

makes me want to bang my hands against the desk. (they were never great at the close work, but now they are damn near useless for even most tasks.

but my hat is off to ya. that is lookin beautiful.
thanks for the step by step.

curley
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WaddWatsonEllis
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #158 on: April 04, 2010, 12:35:39 am »

Josh,

I think Dave Cole hit it on the nail about these WIPs ... it separates the 'Hey, I think I could do that' from the 'There is no way in hell that I would even try that' ... I always felt I was in the latter category ... and after seeing this I am for certain that I am better having this piece of art done ...

But even us 'No way in hell'-ers get to see what needs to be done and understand the value placed in each piece of work .... instead of just buying something existing off a shelf, we get to know just how much work is involved in doing this ....
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #159 on: April 04, 2010, 08:08:29 pm »

I'm lovin' this thread!  Just a comment on staining curly maple.  I use it a lot on my knives.  I use "Aqua Fortis" to stain the maple.  It is similar to Vinegaroon but instead of vinegear I use nitric acid to dissolve the steel wool.  After applying the aqua fortis the wood appears to be green.  I then use a heat gun to change the color to rich red and bring out the curl.  An application of water and baking soda neutralizes the acid.  After drying I use 0000 steel wool and boiled linseed oil to finish the wood.  I have never used it on an inlaid handle so I do not know what would happen when the aqua fortis meets silver.  I just thought I'd share how I do it.  Once again, this is an addictive thread and I can't wait to see the finished work.
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #160 on: April 04, 2010, 08:53:06 pm »

Messerist,

Thats a great lookin finish Pard.  A couple hours to late for this'n   LOL  but we'll get to that soon.  I have heard of your treatment but haven't experimented with it personally yet.   I'm actually using a similar process though so we'll have to see how she comes out  Grin.

One thing I forgot to mention about the wire is how to get the nice taper on the end of the wire.  This is accomplished very simply by "cold forging"  the end of the wire prior to starting.



Here's side #2 done and cleaned up a little.



Getting prepped for some wood treatments with the Vinegaroon, and some dark brown Fieblings Pro Oil Dye

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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #161 on: April 04, 2010, 09:02:55 pm »

Here we're really soaking the wood down good with the Vinegaroon and hitting it with the heat gun.  My purpose here with the heat gun is to swell the grain as tight as I can get it.  I did this process 3 times the left it wet the 4 run.



Here she is wet with V and ready for the dye.  I like to dye the wood wet because the wetness will assist in wicking the dye into the wood.  Next shot soaked with dye.  And left to dry.




I do of course clean the dye off the bolsters and tang while it's still wet  Grin  Dang, still looks like crud, LOL



I really didn't need to dye the wood quite yet but  it's a great way to easily find any low spots in your wood when doing the final shaping and finishing of the handle.



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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #162 on: April 04, 2010, 09:12:35 pm »

While the handle is drying back out we're gonna move on to some work on the bolsters.

I'm going to use this diamond bit to grind out the tang where the filework will be.  Before begining I cut a line in with a diamond triangle file so I'v got a groove for the bit to ride in.  My diamond bit is a smaller diameter than the filework so I've got to freehand it a bit to get the tang right.


Here we got it roughed in fairly close to where we need to be. 


Getting a layout measurement to tranfer the center of the cutout to the top of the bolster to keep my cut going straight.


Mark tranferred and my cut line drawn on.  I just freehand this but a piece of tape could easily be used to get a straight line over a curved surface like this.
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #163 on: April 04, 2010, 09:23:14 pm »

Cut a nice straight guide line in with the triangle file.


Now I go to the round file and "chase" the line across the bolster going forward little by little as the cut gets deeper.




Now I move on to rounding the inside corners of the groove

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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #164 on: April 04, 2010, 09:35:26 pm »

Same thing for the other side to complete this part of the file work.

Here I've layed out where I want my other decorative suts to be made.


Here I'll be starting the cut with a triangle needle file the switching to the regular size triangle once I've got a nice starting cut to assist in staying on course.  Slipping and marring up the finish on the bolster flats creates more work in hand finishing the bolster so we try to avoid that if possible.


Now that I've got the filework finished I'm using this wire wheel in the Dremel to burnish the inside of the filework.  This leaves a kinda of Matte textured appearance to the filework that contrasts nicely with the flats.


Here we've got the flats hand sanded to 320 grit and all the corners gently "broken"  just enough so they wont be too hard on the fingers
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #165 on: April 04, 2010, 09:39:32 pm »

Now I'm pretty much done with the bolsters other than cleaning up the flats a little more so I pulled all the tape so we could have a peek at how she's comming along.



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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #166 on: April 04, 2010, 09:48:32 pm »

Now bare with me her Pards 'cuz some of yall are gonna think I've gone and lost my marbles here but it's time to go back to the handle and do the final machine shaping of the handle followed by hand sanding areas we can get with the grinding belt.

This is something worth noting here.  Anytime your sanding and area where wood meets metal such as- Pins, Silverwire, Guard, Bolsters, etc.  you HAVE to sand with a hard backing on your paper to keep things even and flush.

On Baby Duty.  be back a bit later LOL,  Josh
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WaddWatsonEllis
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #167 on: April 04, 2010, 09:49:55 pm »

What a nice Easter Gift!

I just came back from dinner with friends and this work is waiting for me ...

Thank you so much for a very special Easter gift!
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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WaddWatsonEllis
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #168 on: April 04, 2010, 10:36:26 pm »

Hi,

I was doing a search for Damascus steel and ran into this page ... about 10% was above my head, but still worth the read ...

http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/kap_5/advanced/t5_1_1.html



* knife-sheath-baker-02.jpg (78.94 KB, 600x600 - viewed 91 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #169 on: April 04, 2010, 10:42:50 pm »

Ok, Back to it, LOL

What happens is the wood will cut away MUCH faster than the metal leaving an un-even or wavvy surface instead of a flat smooth one.  Even on the grinder this will happen a slow speeds with a clogged belt so to flatten everything out I clean my belt and make a couple passes with medium pressure to get a nice agressive cut, albeit at 220 grit.



At this time I'm now getting everything evened up from side to side to end up with a nice symetrical handle



I'm missing some pics I thought I took of thia part.  Here is one where I've pencil marked where I need to cut this side to so it matches the opposite side.  From there I hand sanded this area on both sides to finish them up.
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #170 on: April 04, 2010, 10:54:47 pm »

At this point I'm not really worried about getting a more refined finish on the handle.  From here I re-wet with the Vinegaroon then dyed and cleaned again and let it sit till the surface was dry to the touch then covered the entire handle with a mix of 70% Birchwwod Casey Tru-oil gunstock finish and 30% mineral spirits.   

This coat is put on very heavy until the suface of the wood stays wet with oil which allows the wood to soak up as much of the oil as possible.  It is left to dry like this even though we'll be doing more sanding to refine the suface of the wood and will basically be sanding back down to the wood.  At this point the main goal is just the penetration of the oil to fill the pores of the wood so we can refine the surface to what will hopefully end up being a glass smooth handle with a beautiful finish that highlights the curl of the wood and has an almost 3-D effect.

Here's a couple shots of her wet with oil
 



Thanks agin for following alon Pards   Grin
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kflach
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« Reply #171 on: April 05, 2010, 10:43:33 am »

WOW! WOW! WOW!


One thing I haven't noticed (or maybe it just slipped by me because I was overcome with how pretty this is) is any specific steps to 'balance' the blade. How is that accomplished? Is that even applicable since this isn't a throwing knife?
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #172 on: April 05, 2010, 11:42:49 am »

kflach,

Thats a very good question, and one that may requre a lengthy answer LOL.

Balance is VERY important to the feel of a knife, especially one this big.   Believe it or not balance has a much larger effect on how the knife feels in the hand and performs than the actual weight of the knife. 

For instance, a heavy knife thats well balanced will feel "light and fast" in the hand, while a light knife balanced too far forward will feel awkward with little control.

Balancing the knife is something that to a large degree is controllable by the maker of the knife.  For example 2 full tang  8" bowie knives with the same profile. 

Knife #1  Is ground with a full length distal taper (taper in the width towards the tip)   Which allows the maker to "adjust" how much weight he's taking off the front of the blade and moving the balance rearward.   Now he can also taper the tang to do the opposite and move the point of balance forward.  Many times additional holes are drilled in the tang to also remove weight to affect the balance point.   With these combinations there is alot of ability to balance the knife the way you want.   Say for this example that this knife balances right at the guard.  It's gonna be light and fast in the hand and make a great Fighting Bowie that will perform ok in tougher chopping "machete" type tasks.

Knife #2 has no taper and a short hollow grind and a tapered tang.  This knife is going to balance a good distance in front of the guard and feel slower and clunky compared to #1 but will excell at chopping and heavy "camp chore" type tasks due to the extra leverage applied to the cutting edge toward the front of the blade.

Learning how to get the balance you desire is to a large degree figured out from experience and is not an exact science as many factors come into play.  Here are some other factors that will also affect the balance of the knife.

What is the handle material
Is there a rear bolster
Is there a lanyard tube or hole
how many pins, what size, and where on the handle are they placed
Full tang, hidden tang, or framed handle
Size (or more importantly weight)of guard or bolsters

Balance is ALWAYS applicable.  I think many makers just make the knife and it comes out how it comes out and through experience and/or luck they come up with something usefull for the intended tasks of the knife or perhaps not, LOL.

I will however also add that many factors come into play in the design, construction, and end functionality of a knife. Cross section of the blade, thickness of the blade at the edge, angle and quality of sharpening, type of grind, shape of the blade for the intended tasks are all factors that are all equally important and need to work together to creat a really outstanding knife.

As to how this all applies to the Belduque,  I like tapering my tangs from a design standpoint but decided not to on this blade due to the effect it would have on the balance and now I'm glad I didn't.   I did put a distal taper on her but only from the start of the clip forward. She balances right at the front of the bolsters which makes her light and fast feeling but should also perform admirably at chopping tasks due to the thinness of the blade on the edge.  To me this is a good compromise for a knife that would've most likely been the owners all purpose cutting, slicing, butchering, chopping, self defense weapon, and tool of choice for pretty much everything.

-Josh
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Josh Dabney
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« Reply #173 on: April 05, 2010, 11:53:31 am »

It's also worth noting that with this knife the design of the handle also comes into play.

The size of the wood is just about hand sized so when swinging the blade for chopping, fighting or slashing the balance point is about 3/4" in front of the hand which gives a little forward leverage.

But when "choking up" on the handle over the bolster and using a chef style pinch grip the balance point is now right  between the first and middle finger offering a great deal of control and precision like would be needed when skinning game or eating.

I think thats about it, LOL   Grin

-Josh
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kflach
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« Reply #174 on: April 05, 2010, 12:19:10 pm »

Thanks Josh, that's exactly the info I was looking for!
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Cutting Edge (Moderator: St. George)  |  Topic: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP « previous next »
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