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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  USFA CSS (Moderator: Capt. John Fitzgerald)  |  Topic: action job 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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REDBLOOD
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« on: April 22, 2005, 10:30:41 pm »


Was thinking of getting an action job done on USFA SAA.
Any suggestions on who does the best. Must be real quality for these.
Thanks
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RRio
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2005, 01:54:43 am »

Tom Sargis comes to mind. I've heard alot of good things about him. There's also Bob James, but he most always has a 3 to 6 month wait. And of course Bob Munden, but from what I have heard a little pricey.
I do action jobs, but only for family, now that I do not have a FFL to work under.

With a USFA, you definitly want someone with a good reputation and a true working knowledge of SAAs working on it. There's a lot out there that say they do, but really don't. Be careful, stay with a well known smitty.
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Sixshooter_45
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2005, 09:46:30 pm »

Try Lee's Gunsmithing, http://www.cowboyshooters.com/.

I used him for my Old Model SS .45 Ruger Vaquero. I had the Gunslinger, ( GUNSLINGER: The action job most often selected..> custom tune springs, trigger job, custom time and fit hand, polish cylinder chambers, handfit and polish action, open forcing cone, fit bolt, adjust loading gate, true rear barrel face ... $175), action job.

I also had him serrate the front site, Chamfer the cylinder, (so the cases drop easily, hardly ever use my ejector rod anymore), free spin pawl, Stronger spring for the base pin. This is one fine accurate Ruger now! It is awesome, so slick, just a 36 oz. trigger pull. I really love shooting this revolver now.

He comes highly recommended by others as well http://www.navyarms.com/html/cas_champs.htmlWink

He is very competent, honest and fair!
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Sixshooter_45
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2005, 10:05:41 pm »

I've used a number of gunsmiths over the last several years.  Some I won't use again, others I return to over and over.  One of those is already mentioned, Lee's Gunsmithing.  They did a rather involved job for me on 3 Rugers.  Replaced the barrels, forcing cones, taylor throating, adjust windage, and some trigger work.  The guns group about a bullet size hole (5 shots) at 25 yards now.

I've also been real pleased with Lassiter: lassiter45@aol.com
and with Cody Conager: 301-624-4348

They all do excellent work on USFA's.

Doc
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Burt Mossman
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2005, 11:59:24 pm »

And, myself, Burt Mossman, Saber River Gunsmithing here in Prescott, AZ.
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Saber River Gunsmithing
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RRio
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2005, 12:30:44 pm »

And, myself, Burt Mossman, Saber River Gunsmithing here in Prescott, AZ.

Burt has done work for me, and he does know his way around a SAA and lever action rifle. (on a '92)

Besides that, how can you go wrong with the first Captain of the Arizona Rangers??
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2005, 03:18:38 pm »

Rawhide..When you do action jobs, what do you actuyally do and what are you looking for?
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RRio
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2005, 03:01:53 am »

Rawhide..When you do action jobs, what do you actuyally do and what are you looking for?

The first thing I do it disassemble the gun, and set the parts to one side. Then go inside the frame to stone and polish every area that will have moving part on it. After I am satisfied with that, I modify the main spring by taking .060 off each side with a pedestal grinder and continually dunking it in water. If you get it hot enough to feel the heat, it is hot enough to remove the temper and that will ruin the spring.

The next thing is to stone and pollish the hand, the bolt, the cylinder pin and the cylinder bushing. Once I get all moving parts and surfaces to my liking, I partially assemble it to set the timing.

I personally like that timing to be where the bolt comes up into the approach roughly about .020 to .030 in front of the slot on the cylinder.  Some of that depends on the type of gun, i.e. USFA, Uberti, Colt, etc.
I also put in a trigger/bolt spring of my own manufacture (and never had a failure).

This is basically a condensed version, and the ability to set up a SAA correctly, comes with experiance. I have done action jobs on SAAs for about 26 years. (My "Crowning Glory" came when the owner of Spangenberg's Gun Shop in Tombstone, AZ, offered me a job after trying the action of one of my guns.)

 
I would not recommend anybody trying this that doesn't know what they are doing, because it can get very expensive...   ...very fast.
I've seen a lot of "shade-tree" jobs that I have had to repair and replace parts because some one did not know what they were doing.
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USFACS #28     STORM #178
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2005, 11:32:44 am »

Very interresting.  I do essentially the same thing to my 1911's including stoning the sear and hammer hooks.  What I do not know how to do is to set the timing.  I could heat the hand, draw it and then file and polish to set it.  But I have no idea if that is the way to do it.  Also if I heat the hand to draw it, the temper in the hand spring would be gone, ergo requiring hand spring removal. That along with modifying the bolt would set the timing, drop the bolt into the groove so that when the hand pushes the cyl to where it needs the bolt drops firmly in place.  But if a bolt drops to early, I see no real way to correct that without a new bolt and or hammer cam.  I generally make my own coil springs, but with the after market availability of main and bolt springs, I do not see the need for me to go there.  Here is my dilema.  If I stone the trigger it effectively will allow the hammer to go to full cock before the cyl is fully rotated into position.  Therefore the hand becomes too short.  If I heat the hand to draw it, is it tempered or surface hardened?  I have looked at the hand spring and realize that one of these days I will need to replace one, I just have not wanted to tinker with it until I have read enough and talked to others about how to do.  The 1911 has so much published information about ways to tune it that with a little mechanical ability, there is nothing on that gun I would not attempt from plunger tube replacement to cutting hammer hooks.  Wish I could find this type of information on the SAA's.

Now here is a question for you.  Third gen colts do not have base pin bushings.  Now this is a what if question, I do not have one yet.  If the cylinder becomes sloppy on the pin, one can simply replace it with an oversize pin and ream to fit.  Could the cylinder be mounted in my mill, the center of the pin hole determined, and then cut it for a base pin bushing?  I see the cylinder indexing slots are a little different, but if it would accept a base pin bushing, would that not be a better way to go?  Now one would not have to through cut the cylinder for the full length base pin bushing, but leave 0.020 or so on the hand end of the cyulinder and fit a bushing to it that way.  My curiosity is piqued here, so I will ask a lot of questions of someone with more knowledge than I have.
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RRio
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2005, 03:14:49 pm »

Quote
Now here is a question for you.  Third gen colts do not have base pin bushings.  Now this is a what if question, I do not have one yet.  If the cylinder becomes sloppy on the pin, one can simply replace it with an oversize pin and ream to fit.  Could the cylinder be mounted in my mill, the center of the pin hole determined, and then cut it for a base pin bushing?  I see the cylinder indexing slots are a little different, but if it would accept a base pin bushing, would that not be a better way to go?

The new Colts do have a base pin bushing. As far as setting one up in a mill and doing that. You would have to indicate the OD of the cylinder and the OD of the existing pressed in bushing, to each other to within +/- .0005 TIR to keep everything concentric. Personnally, I would not do that, as it would take an enormous amount of use before it would wear enough to cause any problems.
I would sell that particular Colt and buy a USFA.
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2005, 04:26:24 pm »

0.0005 TIR is not that difficult to set up, but I really do not think Colt ever held tolerances that close.  This is now into MOOG valve tolerances.  Time consuming yes.  Use, well I will put the Colt to good use.  I had to have a Colt.  I found one plated, engraved and with ivory grips a lot less than a comparable USFA would cost.  Also, this fell into the "I had to have it" category just like I feel the need for a NRV coming over me.
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RRio
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2005, 02:33:58 am »

0.0005 TIR is not that difficult to set up, but I really do not think Colt ever held tolerances that close. 

If I was the one converting the cylinder, that is how I would indicate it in. Less chance in boring or reaming it off center. When it comes to my machining, I am a perfectonist. No room for error, people fly on my parts.

Quote
but I really do not think Colt ever held tolerances that close

That's why I have USFAs.
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USFACS #28     STORM #178
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2005, 02:17:27 pm »

good response, I enjoyed it.  Also I have additional information on what to look at when taking my USFA's apart.
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RRio
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2005, 03:08:39 am »

If you don't already have a copy of it, I highly recommend " The Colt Single Action Revolvers, A Shop Manual, Volumes 1 & 2" by Jerry Kuhnhausen.

It is an invaluable resource for SAA gunsmithing.
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USFACS #28     STORM #178
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