Posted by: Joe Lansing
Professor Marvel,
All may not be lost. There is still the "iron" frame Henry.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Okay! I'll trade ya!
Interesting PM, didn't have the time to search the facts, but that just didn't sound like that good of an alloy to me. Surprised it didn't have no manganese in it. From years ago when I worked at Hy-Gain and they made military antennas the machined brass parts had some of that in it. I was told it made it easier to machine and added strength.
Also won't that much zinc make it a bit more brittle. I know cartridge brass for the most part or at least US made is 70% copper and 30% zinc.
AH my dear sir, you worked at Hy-Gain?!?! They were the ACME of antenna makers, and made great strides in design of affordable directional shortwave antennas, beams, rotors, towers...
I briefly investigated the "X Ray Fluorescent Analysis" process and equipment hoping that perhaps it might not show small percentages (less than 1 percent) of other alloying metals. Allas, it is a very effective process, and apparently is used to detect as little as 5 ppm of lead in paint and toys ...
Regarding the zinc content, I am unsure of the brittleness, as a mere amature metal crank and a failure at chemistry - I am limited to what opinions of others I can read, and my own personal experiences and am unable to extrapolate an opinion in these arcane matters of chemistry - it is as obtuse to me as cooking, which is a chemical mystery in itself!!!
All I could find regarding that specific alloy 56/44 (no other additives) pertained exclusively to button alloy.
It seems that high strength "gun bronze" contains a very high ratio of copper, 90% or more, but it seems more amenable to casting than machining, which would make it less desirable in rifle frame manufacture. However, there are a number of more appealing Bronze alloys that could have been used, amongst them
Phosphor Bronze (makes for great antenna wire, btw)
Various "other" Gun Bronzes (they often refer you to phosphor bronze!)
Aluminum Bronzes
I am currently playing with a very nice Aluminum bronze whose paperwork claims between 80k and 90k psi tensile strength -
really quite amazing, since mild steel runs between 45k and 55k psi tensile..
It has a lovely golden yellow color, machines well, so it will make nice knife guards or bullet molds, and is said to cast easily but I have not yet tried that.
this excerpt from Henley's formulas online instructs the properly equipped lunatic to make his own Gun Bronze or Phosphor Bronze:
http://www.achestofbooks.com/reference/Henley-s-20th-Century-Formulas-Recipes-Processes-Vol1/Phosphor-Bronze.htmland an ancient manual from 1884 discusses gun bronze of the era :
"The materials of engineering", Volume 3 (published 1884)
By Robert Henry Thurston
...
The most common of these alloys is gun bronze which consists usually of 90 parts copper 10 of tin or 89 copper n tin Such bronze has a strength which will depend greatly on the soundness of the castings and purity of the constituents of the alloy but which often may exceed 50,000 pounds per square inch in tension
The tenacity of gun bronze thus depends greatly upon the method of manufacture of casting and of cooling By careful handling it has been given a tenacity in ordnance exceeding even 60,000 pounds per square inch and the Author has obtained small bars still stronger Bronze ordnance of large size has been made here and in Europe with success ...
--------
Later He discusses the efficacies and wonderfulness of phosphor bronze:
..."journal Ordnance has been made of this modification of gun bronze by European nations and has been found to excel in strength toughness and endurance. Small arms have also been made of it and in ship work the screws and sometimes rods in small vessels. "
the only issue appears to be the high cost:
"The comparatively high cost of phosphor bronze has checked its introduction notwithstanding its undeniable excellence "
However, having been involved just a tad in manufacturing, I can easily see that if the cost of the alloy and increased machining costs added, say only 20% to that cost, retail price on a Yellowboy could easily exceed $1200 for the cheapest model!
So, I will muddle along with bits and pieces of my fancy alloys in my projects, and refrain from complaining overly.
If l I am ever able to machine my own revolver and rifle frames then I will have earned the right to raise a fuss!
It *is* entirely possible, however that different alloys were used in the frame vs the side plate. But even if not, I can readily console myself with the empiracle evidence of many tens of thousands of BP and low pressure smokeless rounds being fired by our compatriots with no ill effects whatsoever. The only "high performance" load I ever intend to try will be to work up a deer load of a full case of swiss under the appropriate lubed lead bullet, and that will only be used sparingly, because I am such a
cheap barstich fugal individual.
yhs
Prof Longwinded Marvel