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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him?  (Read 58071 times)
Dr. Bob
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« Reply #150 on: January 31, 2010, 02:52:52 pm »

Not sure where you got that info Bob but it's got some problems:
1) The percussion M1841/2 musket was nicknamed the Mississippi Rifle due to it's use by the troops under Jeff Davis during the Mexican War. Also the the Colt Walker and other percussion cap firearms, including the percussion Hall breechloaders (first prodcued in 1832-33) saw a fair amount of use during the war, especially by Dragoons.
2) Caps were well developed by 1846 and were in fact most often waterproofed (Eley's were considered the best and they were offering waterproofed caps as early as the late 1820's). John J Audobon showed off his percussion gun to a friend in the early-1830's by firing it under water. By the late 1830's millions of caps were being offered for sale in St Louis, New Orleans, et al.
3) Flintlocks need flints to work and the idea that one could just pick up a chunk of an appropriate rock along the way is something of a falsehood. Military flintlock muskets generally had their flints replaced after every 20 shots. Long or non-existent supply lines would have also had an effect on powder and other supplies, including flints. Besides Scott was sent south to Veracruz by sea and was thus supplied from there and not overland from the north as was needed to be done by Taylor and Doniphan. Also during the war American traders continued  their business coming down from the north - Susan Magoffins journal is a good read regarding the traders following in the wake of Doniphan's army in 1847 south to Saltillo.
4) I've got a Potsdam musket (built in 1820, converted to cap in 1843) that was carried west in 1846 with a member of the Missouri brigade who later settled in Northern New Mexico, married a Ute woman, and became a trader to the Utes.
5) The Brits did supply a considerable number of the later model Tower muskets to the Mexicans throughout Mexico and the Spanish Southwest.
6) By 1851-52 American firearms of all types were widely available in California, including the newly produced Sharps breechloaders (BTW - the first viable lever action was the Henry, not the M1866). The idea that the Spanish would not use such improved arms is a bit strange - even Joaquin Murietta, who hated Anglos used a Colt Walker.
As to Bowie Knives, some of the finest ever made were built/sold in San Francisco by such makers as Michael Price. Besides the English in particular had been supplying them throughout the world, but especially the USA by the very early 1830's and the 49'ers brought scads of them west.

While the Spanish Californios did attempt to retain much of their culture, they were not totally reluctant to take up the weapons, tools, and yes even the clothes of the Anglos and then adapt them to their own usage. James Hunt posted a pic in a recent post on overshirts in the NCOWS forum showing two Californios in Spanish style dress with one of them packing a holstered Colt Walker.

Chuck,

I have been a Mexican War reenactor for 20 years and have done extensive research on most aspects of the war.  Jeff Davis was commander of the 1st Mississippi Regt. which was a State unit, armed by the state, not a Regt. raised by the US Army.  The Regiments of the regular Army were indeed armed with flintlocks.  The Dragoons did have some halls carbines.  I was only reporting what I learned reading around 20 books on the war and spend numerous days at the Frontier Army Museum at Ft. Leavenworth which covers the Army from 1800 to 1916.  Yes, some units were armed with percussion arms, but they were in the minority. 
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« Reply #151 on: January 31, 2010, 03:10:50 pm »

Regulars would've had percussion weapons, while Militia and Volunteers would've had the older, cast-off flintlocks handed down by the Regular Army.

That said - another aspect of the impression that's useful is going to be 'money'...

There were a number of private banks that issued coinage and notes of legal tender.

Find yourself a supplier of some replica coins and bills and carry them in a vest pocket or pouch - and well-selected 'Fool's gold' can double as 'dust'.

You can even photocopy the bills along with a bit of information and give them as hand-outs to kids.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!





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« Reply #152 on: January 31, 2010, 05:04:27 pm »

Chuck,

I have been a Mexican War reenactor for 20 years and have done extensive research on most aspects of the war.  Jeff Davis was commander of the 1st Mississippi Regt. which was a State unit, armed by the state, not a Regt. raised by the US Army.  The Regiments of the regular Army were indeed armed with flintlocks.  The Dragoons did have some halls carbines.  I was only reporting what I learned reading around 20 books on the war and spend numerous days at the Frontier Army Museum at Ft. Leavenworth which covers the Army from 1800 to 1916.  Yes, some units were armed with percussion arms, but they were in the minority. 

Bob is basically correct.  The regular army infantry were armed with flintlock muskets for the Mexican war.  The dragoons were issued Hall's breech loading percussion carbines and the Mounted Rifles were armed with the "new" percussion model 1841 rifles.  The 1841s were also issued to the 1st Mississippi Rifles who used them to great effect at the battle of Buena Vista.  That is where the 1841 got its nickname "The Mississippi Rifle."

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« Reply #153 on: January 31, 2010, 07:21:12 pm »

"The infantry under General Taylor was armed with flint-lock muskets, and paper cartridges charged with powder, buck-shot and ball." The Mesican-American War 1846-1848,Osprey Men-At-Arms Series #56, London, 1976, pg 12. 

As the volunteer reenactment of the Frontier Army Museum, the infantry were armed with Mod. 1835 Flintlock muskets [reproduction - personally owned].  This is the correct arm for the Infantry of the US Army for the Mexican War!  The infantry with General Scott were aremed with them too!
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« Reply #154 on: January 31, 2010, 08:34:12 pm »

WWE,
I didn't think you were being combative at all. Sometimes I use language like that ("this is not a challenge") merely to make sure *I* am not looking combative. That's all.

;-)
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« Reply #155 on: January 31, 2010, 11:51:12 pm »

Kflach,

I understand entirely; it is so easy to be taken as sarcastic and litteral when one is making a joke ....

In fact, my last comment to you was of that ilk ... that we are on the same page on this ....
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

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« Reply #156 on: February 19, 2010, 12:15:41 pm »

WWE,
If you are still trying to find out some info about ranchos in the Sacramento area, see if you can track down anything on "Rancho San Juan"  It was an 1844 land grant, of several thousand acres.  It pretty much took up the whole northeast corner of Sacto County.  It covered the area between the present Highway 50 and I-80:  Fair Oaks (I grew up there), Orangevale, Citrus Heights, Carmichael and Folsom - pretty much everything north of the American river, up to around the Roseville/Loomis area.  Don't know if there was a "main hacienda"; I seem to remember the owner/ patrón did not actually live there.  I always thought it unusual that the main market for cattle in California in those days was NOT beef, but hides and tallow.
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« Reply #157 on: March 17, 2010, 12:39:32 am »

Guns Garrett,

I am looking for a peculiarity ... my spreckled Spanish would not last for more than a minute or so. So the perfect persona, both from a historical and personal viewpoint, would be to emulate one of the many Yanquis who came to California prior to the Treaty of Guadelupe-Hidalgo in 1848, and married into a Spanish family, becoming Catholic and a Mexican Citizen. As such, their Spanish would not have to be perfect, and they would have one foot in both worlds, as a Yanqui turned Mexican Citizen who was repatriated back to American citizenship after the 1848 treaty.

Finding land grants in this area is fairly easy. Besides Sutter, there was a land grant that held most of what is now West Sacramento and Davis. I thought I had found my identity in Jared Sheldon ... but he was shot by miners and killed a year before I would be reenacting ....

Jared Dixon Sheldon, one of our earliest pioneers and originally from Vermont, came to California in 1832 and at some point afterward became a Mexican citizen. In 1842, Thomas Larkin, who was then the American Consul to Mexico, was awarded the contract for expansion and improvement of the Customs House in Monterey, which had been built in 1827. Jared Sheldon worked on this project for Thomas Larkin. Based on the size of the land grant he received as payment for services to the Mexican government on this project it could be assumed he was a foreman. He was granted Omochumnes Rancho, nearly 14,000 acres near present day Sloughhouse and Rancho Murieta, in 1843 for his work. It was there that he and friend William Daylor built a grist mill in 1845 to mill wheat for Capt. John Sutter on the Cosumnes River. To supply water to his crops south of the river he built a dam 16-ft high, double-walled of heavy oak, and filled with large stones. On July 12, 1851 he was shot and killed by 40 to 100 angry miners in the river below his dam. Also killed in the shootout were 2 of Sheldon’s 12 friends, James M. Johnson of Iowa and Edward Cody of Illinois. Three men were wounded, including a miner. The prevailing miners destroyed the sluice gate in the dam. They had unrecorded gold mining claims in the river-bottom on Sheldon’s land, which would be flooded by the rising water upstream from the dam. Subsequent floods continued the dam’s destruction, and hydraulic mining in Michigan Bar buried the remnants in silt. Public right of access to California streams was not clarified until 1879. This display shows how the mill worked and pictures of the remains of the mill. Various parts of the mill are now on display at the Heritage Park in effort to help preserve this part of our rich heritage. Plans are underway, as funding allows, to create a working model of Sheldon's Grist Mill.
 

So far, I have not found such a person .....
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #158 on: March 23, 2010, 09:43:22 am »

Hi Y'all,

I was putzing on the internet and came upon this painting named 'California Tandem' ... Here it is:

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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #159 on: March 23, 2010, 12:19:53 pm »

Got the dreaded RED X. Sad Sad
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« Reply #160 on: March 23, 2010, 05:48:35 pm »

Hi Y'all,

I was putzing on the internet and came upon this painting named 'California Tandem' ... Here it is:



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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #161 on: April 10, 2010, 04:19:30 pm »

WWE,
If you are still trying to find out some info about ranchos in the Sacramento area, see if you can track down anything on "Rancho San Juan"  It was an 1844 land grant, of several thousand acres.  It pretty much took up the whole northeast corner of Sacto County.  It covered the area between the present Highway 50 and I-80:  Fair Oaks (I grew up there), Orangevale, Citrus Heights, Carmichael and Folsom - pretty much everything north of the American river, up to around the Roseville/Loomis area.  Don't know if there was a "main hacienda"; I seem to remember the owner/ patrón did not actually live there.  I always thought it unusual that the main market for cattle in California in those days was NOT beef, but hides and tallow.

Guns Garrett;

I am retired from Mercy Hospitals, and for much of my career I worked at Mercy San Juan  which I was always told was part of a big ranch .... now I know that the ranch was even bigger than I supposed  ...
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #162 on: April 10, 2010, 06:05:42 pm »

I scnned back over this thread and never found a mention of the Colt Root PISTOLS.

There is a good repro out, tiny little thing, that is really a hoot.
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« Reply #163 on: April 10, 2010, 07:21:42 pm »

Forty Rod,

I got a very good deal on a .44 Cal '51 Colt and that is going to be the weapon for a very long time, or until I get such a deal that I cannot turn it down .... Will Ghormley made me a copy of an original Main & Winchester California Slim Jim that I wear crossdraw. It looks good and fits well, so there it is ... although I was at a men's antique shop (i.e., he sold manly things), and there were several inexpensive pepperboxes there ... so if I find myself there again (I was at a church conference), I just might be tucking a little .31 Cal pepperbox inside my sash. Talk about run-on sentences!


* pepperbox pistol.jpg (31.37 KB, 500x376 - viewed 157 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #164 on: April 10, 2010, 08:27:13 pm »

Don't worry!  It made sense!  Better than a lot of folks can! Grin
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« Reply #165 on: April 11, 2010, 02:29:01 pm »


 a .44 Cal '51 Colt


Sorry; but there is no such thing, historcally.



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« Reply #166 on: April 11, 2010, 03:23:39 pm »

Sorry; but there is no such thing, historcally.



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Yes there was/is, they've been around since the 1960's, that make them almost antiques.
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« Reply #167 on: April 11, 2010, 06:07:51 pm »

Books,

Mea Culpa, you are right. Historically, there was no such thing as a '51 .44 Caliber Colt.

But I intentionally bought this larger-than-historically-correct pistol because:

It was for sale used at a rediculously low price.

Sometime just after the Civil War, the US Army did a study of battlefield mortality. One of the interesting things that they observed was officers with .36 Colts, dead with an expended Colt in their hand. The enemy lived long enough to inflict mortal wounds on the officer before dying.

99.99% of the time this will be a holster queen for reenactments, and the public will see about as much as you do in the picture below (sticking out of a historically correct Main & Winchester Slim Jim Copy).  The 0.01% of the time I would have to use this, you can bet your great grandmother's bippy that I would rather have the .44 Caliber ... of course, unless given the time to load I would be better off trying to use my Belduque ... LOL.

But that is the reason I carry an 1851 Repro Colt in /44 Cal.





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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #168 on: April 11, 2010, 06:42:18 pm »

Nice looking rig.  If it were mine I would strip that red Italian finish and restain the grips a more proper color.

Will Ketchum
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« Reply #169 on: April 11, 2010, 08:26:20 pm »

Will,

Great minds seem to run in the same tracks ... LOL.

I did exactly what you said ... and used walnut Danish oil to stain the grips ... then coated them with a marine product callled Deks Olje (pronounced ol-ya). The marine coating is more or less half tung oil and half polyurethane ... hella hardy, more or less waterproof, and is the only product that I ever used that would hold up for a year on the decks of my sailboat under the harsh California Delta sun.

The stuff goes on like a tung oil; one keeps applying coats of oil until it the coating closes off the grain, then a light coat every so often for about four hours.

The nicest thing about it is that, if the finish is scratched,one can wet sand it, let it dry, and then re-coat. Unlike varnish, the finish will feather into any scratches.

The Deks Olje I gives a satin finish ... and by adding coats of  the Deks Olje II to the top of # I, the finish goes to a high shine varnish like finish.

The weapon in the holster is the same as the one on the rug ... the one in the holster is just after stripping, staining and Deks Olje treatment ...


* Deks Olje.jpg (41.99 KB, 200x200 - viewed 147 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #170 on: April 28, 2010, 01:41:10 am »

Hi

I was 'color for a state banquet in which they had a professional photgapher  ... so he took my picture en mufti and as I promised, I put it in my profile ...

Whaddaya think?

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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #171 on: April 28, 2010, 02:42:25 am »

WWE,

You look very extinguished, I mean distinguished!  Embarrassed  Wink  Grin  A great looking jacket.  Shocked  Grin
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« Reply #172 on: April 28, 2010, 04:02:16 am »

That should pass Muster.
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« Reply #173 on: April 28, 2010, 08:04:43 am »

Thanks; like I said on another forum, sometimes I feel that I look like a psychotic Mariachi player ... then there is the tourist who will gush to her child, 'Oh, look, Honey, a cowboy!' *S*
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #174 on: April 28, 2010, 09:03:43 am »

It looks like one of those guys in the pictures of the Californio guys!
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