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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him? 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him?  (Read 54337 times)
Lone Gunman
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« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2009, 11:40:53 am »

Here's another book you will find interesting:



I don't believe Mora uses the term in his book, but I have an original 1872 copy of Buffalo Land by W.E.Webb which refers to the Mexicans as "greasers". I would have thought that adjective would have originated sometime in the 20th century. Buffalo Land is the true story of an odd mix of adventurers as they explore the buffalo lands west of Topeka. It can be read online at Google books.

I would love to see the confederate picture as well if someone can point me that direction.  (we would have thought him a tad fancy for our border unpleasantness.) 

It's Captain Samuel J. Richardson, commander of Company F, 2nd Texas Cavalry (2nd Mounted Rifles) but it's most likely Jaguar, Ocelots are too small and the spots are different.




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George "Lone Gunman" Warnick

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« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2009, 12:01:25 pm »

Those is fancy.   Thanks.   I think I will stear clear of those for any persona.  Grin
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WaddWatsonEllis
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« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2009, 12:17:13 pm »

I am sure he thought himself quite swell, but I can't imagine him wearing that outfit as a Texas Ranger ... that is about the exact opposite of what he wanted if he wanted to command respect.

Of course, he could always shoot his opponent while he was in the paroxysms of laughter ... I believe he would have plenty of time to fire ....
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2009, 01:40:46 pm »

Given that he commanded a company of Texas Cavalry for the Confederacy - and given where they fought and how hard - I doubt they were an issue for his troopers.

Or for anyone else, for that matter...

'Command Presence' comes from within - 'not' from the clothing worn.

Ascribing today's beliefs and prejudices to the past does those who went before a grave dishonor.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!



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"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
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« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2009, 02:44:22 pm »

Hey Wad, there were tooled slim jims, I have a pair for some 1872 open tops, but you see a lot of plain ones or ones with boarder tooling. 

Thanks Lone Gunman, thats the picture.  Very real guy, very real outfit, just way out of the norm so not a good choice if you want to be doing the period.   Actually, the chaps wouldn't be all that noteworthy.  There were a number of types of fur chaps available, though cat fur would be exotic.    I am after a set of seal skin chaps like TR wore.  The holsters are a bit much but again fur on holsters were known.  You see big cat fur used a lot in 19th century European military regalia.  Its just not that common in the US at this time.   Any way you look at it he was a snappy dresser! 
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WaddWatsonEllis
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« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2009, 03:31:20 pm »

St George,

I should learn to hold my tongue ... I probably would have gone alot farther in life if I had ... I am like that character Estelle Getty played in Golden Girls : I tend to say whatever is on the tip of my tongue without that discerning filter most people have ... and I humbly appologize.


Roscoe,

I have given up trying to find something premade on the internet ... the man who is doing my belt is going to make me a matching holster ... and since I really trust his historical instincts, I think that is the best decision.... Plus, since he already has the belt I know it will all work as a kit ...
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2009, 10:21:19 pm »

I have seen several south of the border saddle bags and flap holsters (mostly pommel holsters) that had plenty of exotic furs, Jaguars, bears, some tiger, just not so much of it at once.  I am guessing unless he shot them himself on a trip south, that could not have been cheap.
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« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2009, 10:58:45 am »

Actually jaguar were somewhat plentiful in the early to mid 19th century in south and east Texas so he might have even shot it from the porch. I believe the last confirmed jaguar in Texas was around 1900.  Also, the use of jaguar pelts may have been a little more common in that area than we'd think, or maybe Capt Richardson was just a big fan of Sam Houston (even though Houston was against secession and resigned as governor because of it). Click HERE to see Sam Houston's favorite 'leopard' skin vest.
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« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2009, 12:13:01 pm »

I didn't know jaguars made it that far north.  Interesting.  I wish I could remember the book that had all the saddle accoutrements from Mexico that had fur items.  I am 99% sure it was a book that had armour of the Winged Hussars, very fancily dressed Polish Knights, they had lots of exotic furs on their saddles, arms, and armor.   
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« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2009, 01:37:26 pm »

Jaguars are occasionally seen in Arizona to this day.  They come out of Mexico along some of the mountain ranges. 
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« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2009, 11:39:41 pm »

Hi,

For the life of me, I can neither find an internet store nor any source for the calzoneras, or Californio pants.

Does anyone know of a person who sells them?

Or a seamstress who would want to take on the job of transforming normal pants into calzoneras?

Thanks!
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2009, 11:46:11 pm »

Wad,

Here ya go!  Hamilton Dry Goods.

     http://www.hamiltondrygoods.com/Vacaro.htm

Not museum quality, but PC.

Not expensive either! Roll Eyes Cheesy Grin
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« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2009, 01:38:39 am »

Dr Bob

Thanks! 

I never thought to search under Vaquero pants!

The tan ones match the jacket that is on order, and the blue strped ones would match the blue jacket I was thinking of ordering..

So I have listed the page as a favorite, and will be ordering next payday ....


* Vaquero Jacket.jpg (42.15 KB, 366x500 - viewed 146 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2009, 06:03:20 pm »

There were these 'calzoneras' online that I might be purchasing.

The trouble is that every pair of calzoneras that I have seen in print and painting had buttons that, at least in theory, could be unbuttoned all the way up to the waist of the pants.

These 'calzoneras' or Vaquero pants only have buttons to the mid-thigh.

Is this a later period of these calzoneras, or would they be appropriate for the late 1840s or 1850s?

Thanks!


* Vaquero-Brown-Leg.jpg (15.04 KB, 504x720 - viewed 145 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2009, 06:42:29 pm »

Funny how life changes ....

One of my favorite "Westerns" is 'The Wonderful Country" with Robert Mitchum.

He plays a man torn between his life north and south of the Mexican/US border.

Now that I know so much more of Californio clothing, I watched with new eyes to see how accurate the clothing was ...


* The Wonderful Country.jpg (17.79 KB, 240x240 - viewed 146 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2009, 09:27:00 pm »

Wadd,the wonderful country is one of my favorite movies.I have been trying to find it for sale on DVD for awhile.I really like the sombrero's in the movie.Last night I watched a movie called jubille trail it had lots of Californio clothing.Wadd is sutter's fort going to remain open with the cuts the state is making.I live about 20 min from the fort.Thank you all for the great info,murf Cheesy
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WaddWatsonEllis
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« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2009, 10:16:00 pm »

Well met, Murf!

I just looked at Amazon.com to see if they had a DVD of it ... but all they had was non US format. No videos either ...

I will try to run one down ... if I do, I will announce it on the Movies Thread .... I have a friend who can make DVDs out of VHS ... so we will see.

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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2009, 01:36:59 pm »

Just wanted to 'bump' this post and hope that some of my questions get answered ....

Especially about calzoneras ... are ones that buttoned from mid thigh down a later development than the 1840s or just a variant that was always there?

Help Guys!
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2009, 05:21:46 pm »

books.google.com/books?id=zxUVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=calzoneras&source=bl&ots=b-U1PypDKM&sig=2ROffV5p2Reuow6wtraSRDi_ECk&hl=en&ei=_Pq3SuX0E9Hw8Qaf3N25Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=calzoneras&f=false

Relevant to the above, you may find this interesting, I did.
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« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2009, 07:48:58 pm »

James,

Thanks!  The pair that I have that seem pretty authentic to me [?] are made of wool with a leather riding seat.  The legs are split at the middle of the thigh.  There are buttons on the upper part, spaced like the working buttons on the lower 2/3's.  I wear drawers that show and then Stacy Adams shoes.  Grin  Grin  Grin
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« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2009, 08:04:59 pm »

Dr Bob,

I was just on the web book that James Hunt so kindly offered .... in it, the author describes the fashions of LA and distinctly mentions that an option of some of the calaveras was to be split and have buttons to mid thigh.

So it is PC and I will be ordering my first pair on Friday ... BTW, they are marked down to $39.00 now .....

So now I have all my clothing, a quirt, a Belduque, I have on order a belt and holster and am waiting for delivery of an 1851 Colt (so my character would have to be in the 1852-1855 era ... it looks like the only things I have to start saving for is a pair of Botas de Alas so that I can tuck the Belduque into one of them ....

And, in a perfect world, find a person/company who sells spanish style big (1 1/8" radius) pointy cruel spurs ... and don't worry, they will never be on my boots when I ride a horse ....

So if anyone knows a person/company that sells aftermarket chihuahua style Mexican rowels, please let me know ....


* Mexican Rowell.jpg (15.54 KB, 225x300 - viewed 141 times.)
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2009, 08:56:33 pm »

So if anyone knows a person/company that sells aftermarket chihuahua style Mexican rowels, please let me know ....

Like these?



(Hmm...guess yer lookin for Iron Rowels...Bronze won't do?)
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2009, 09:18:19 pm »

Grogan,

Actually, bronze is what I would prefer.... *S*

I went to the Lindholm Brother's website to ask if they sold just rowels .....

And I was immediately Daemoned when I tried to use the email on their website.

So I will have to attempt to call them tomorrow ....

But thanks! I had done internet searches and could not find anything for 'rowels' that might work....
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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Howdy, Pardner! Sacramento, Ca here ....


« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2009, 09:41:41 pm »

I called and got one of the Lindholm Brothers ...

He said to take the 'www.' off the address.

Sure enough, it worked fine.

But he said that yes, they will sell just rowels ... and the price was great ... far cheaper than buying new spurs ....

So I will be sending them a check on Friday ....

By the way, their website is:

www.lindholmspurs.com
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My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne
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« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2009, 12:50:58 am »

Wadd try ebay I have a pair of old style californio spurs I got on ebay.Spurs and tooled straps for about $100.

good luck,murf
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Gold counrty ca.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: What gear would an 1860 Californio carry with him? « previous next »
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