Interesting Pocket Conversion

[Matt Bastardson]

I suppose its only odd to me that the seller wasn't interested in, or didn't bother with, popping the wedge and removing the barrel and cylinder and examining the gun that way.  All that it would have taken would be a block of wood and a plastic or rubber mallet.  (Oops, a wood dowel or padded pin punch, since the ejector housing is partially blocking the barrel wedge.)

Anyways, here's the final few photos:

[Matt Bastardson]

Great photo by the way.  I wonder if anybody in SASS is using the alias 'Matt Bastardson'?  That'd be a good one!

[Dalton Masterson]

Thank you for the pics. Looks like someone tried to polish the heck out of it and make it better. Would be an interesting critter tho.

No, the Root is not pictured, as I dont have any pics of it handy. I was posting the fake antique Walker in the photo actually, in response to your talent comment of a few posts back. The grips dont look right, so the wood is back on it, and it is a nice, old looking Uberti. No proofs or markings were removed tho.

My Root, on the other hand, is a vers. 3A, with full flute cylinder, and lots of pits on one side, like it layed somewhere damp for awhile. The one for sale looks new compared to my Root.
DM

[Matt Bastardson]

Thank you for the pics. Looks like someone tried to polish the heck out of it and make it better. Would be an interesting critter tho.

No, the Root is not pictured, as I dont have any pics of it handy. I was posting the fake antique Walker in the photo actually, in response to your talent comment of a few posts back. The grips dont look right, so the wood is back on it, and it is a nice, old looking Uberti. No proofs or markings were removed tho.

My Root, on the other hand, is a vers. 3A, with full flute cylinder, and lots of pits on one side, like it layed somewhere damp for awhile. The one for sale looks new compared to my Root.
DM

Excellent.  I'd love to see the Root.

I've got an old (1970's vintage maybe?) ASM Walker that needs restoring that I'll someday deal with.  It's so loose it shoots around corners.  The cylinder arbor needs to be pulled and repaired/tightened, and the wedge slot in the barrel needs to be heated up and forged back into shape(flush) from where its started to bulge from shooting heavy loads.  Somebody previously ground on a section of the barrel to remove something inscribed/marked there....what I don't know.  And I've got to fix the loading lever notch to keep it from dropping down on every shot.  With that said, the bluing on the gun is still gorgeous, and the grips are beautiful, and its a great gun.  Too bad virtually none of the 1000 or so originals survived.  (Gee, I guess I am sort of a 'collector', eh?)

[Dalton Masterson]

What do you mean none of the originals survived? 
http://www.juliaauctions.com/firearms.asp#auctions
3rd one down in the list, under the Auctions heading.
There are actually quite a few Walkers left, if you could afford one.

Sad thing is, if I could afford one, I would be shootin it.
DM

[Matt Bastardson]

You are kidding right?  Is this a joke?
 
This is the terrible threat you've been warning us about?  Is that a brass frame? Gimme a break!

Dude, I didn't make it to fool anybody, nor did I attempt to make it look 'old'.    I made it from a rusty piece of garbage brass framed Italian replica for my own shooting/owning pleasure.  (I could have just as easily used a steel framed version though and removed the markings and substituted Colt's markings instead.....but why bother.)  The point is that even I know how to go about recreating old patinas and altering guns, and I'm a rank amateur at it.  The 'pros' are just that...pros at it.  They've got the setups and the chemical baths, the proper stamps and/or engraving tools, and everything else needed to accurately create 'originals'...(stuff that I have no interest in procuring, nor a use for).  And you or any other 'collector' would never be the wiser for it, as evidenced by this thread in which you all claim to have 'originals'.  LOL!

By the way, there is zero evidence that Wells Fargo ever purchased or used any 1849 Colt Pocket Models, sans loading lever or not.  The 'Wells Fargo' Colt variety is a misnomer falsely coined by 'collectors'.  Although common sense would tell you that Wells Fargo agents likely carried their own privately purchased 1849's for 'backup' ....hence the (re)creation of this little .31 Colt hideout 'snubbie'.
(As happens.....I just shot it empty on the 4th of July so that I could clean it since the chambers have been loaded with Pyrodex and ball for about 10+ years...or more.  It shot no problem.  Quite powerful, actually, despite what the ballistics say.)

[Matt Bastardson]

What do you mean none of the originals survived? 
http://www.juliaauctions.com/firearms.asp#auctions
3rd one down in the list, under the Auctions heading.
There are actually quite a few Walkers left, if you could afford one.

Sad thing is, if I could afford one, I would be shootin it.
DM

I believe I said 'virtually', as in just a few.  There aren't many original Walkers left at all.

"Jesse James revolver" indeed!  That right there makes me question every other gun being auctioned there.  I wonder how many times the descendants of Jesse James can sell one of 'his' revolvers?  Need money?  Darn, time to dig up another revolver owned by uncle Jesse!  LOL!  What a racket.

[Matt Bastardson]

Shoot, my Walker looks more 'original' than that purportedly original Walker.  That is one butt-ugly $950,000 Walker.  It just show ya, they're paying for the bragging rights, not the firearm per se.

Photo of Jesse Jame's Colt 1860 Army and rig:

[Appalachian Ed]

James D. Julia is only one of the most respected arm auction houses in the world,

but hey some guy with no real name on the CAS board questions all his guns authenticity,

so I guess we should all stay away.

-Ed

[Matt Bastardson]

So what you're claiming is that a 'reputable' dealer never dabbles in fakes or illegal items?  LOL!  That's a good one!  Except for the fact that they occasionally get popped for doing just that.  Most recently some were popped for illegally dealing in stolen Iraqi loot.  And before that it was pre-Colombian loot.  And I believe one of the large and well-respected auction houses was popped not long ago for something or other, exactly what eludes me at the moment.

Regardless, believe what you like.

Here's my Walker that I paid $99 for back around 1989 (used ASM circa 1970's vintage).  Below it is the $950,000 Walker from the auction.  You tell me which one looks better and/or 'original'.  Ditto for the powder flask.

[Dalton Masterson]

I dont know why they have the Jesse James picture in the photo, and I dont really care. That is also the wrong picture, as that is an 1860 Army.
There are nice original guns out there, and I have seen them, handled them, and wished I could shoot them.
Your Walker looks like a clone, which it is.
I really hate to show you pics of my Root, because it will probably be a fake too.
Good day.

Ed, I love your new Remington by the way. Beautiful gun.
DM

[Matt Bastardson]

I dont know why they have the Jesse James picture in the photo, and I dont really care. That is also the wrong picture, as that is an 1860 Army.
There are nice original guns out there, and I have seen them, handled them, and wished I could shoot them.
Your Walker looks like a clone, which it is.
I really hate to show you pics of my Root, because it will probably be a fake too.
Good day.

Ed, I love your new Remington by the way. Beautiful gun.
DM

Yeah, that's the Jesse James revolver, not a Walker.  I put a caption there to clear up any confusion.  And other than the finish, my Walker looks just like the crappy looking original Walker....more 'authentic' looking, actually (especially in person).  The $950,000 Walker looks like its been cobbled together from parts.

As for the Root, why hesitate to show a photo?  If you believe its real (and/or it is real) what I say or don't say about it matters little.

It seems that many here believe that their nuts get smaller if anyone dares question the authenticity of some of these guns.  I don't know, maybe they do.

[Dalton Masterson]

Well, after reading all of your posts, and every one of them that regards someone else's gun, refutes them as a fake, it just isnt worth the effort for me to take it down from the shelf, photo it, and let someone bash it.
And yes, its real.
'Nuff said.

DM  (oh, and thanks for notating the Jesse James photo. That does clear that up.)

[Matt Bastardson]

Well, after reading all of your posts, and every one of them that regards someone else's gun, refutes them as a fake, it just isnt worth the effort for me to take it down from the shelf, photo it, and let someone bash it.
And yes, its real.
'Nuff said.

DM  (oh, and thanks for notating the Jesse James photo. That does clear that up.)

Come on....I don't believe that the Colt Roots were/are popular enough for the fakers to even bother with, so I believe that you're pretty safe in that regard.  The Root design was sort of an odd half-step backward for Colt.  Here's one for reference:

(Now, the Colt Roots were the guns more likely to be found in grandma's panty drawer in good shape.  They were more of the 'parlor pistol' type kept in the side drawer by the front door on in a nightstand by the bed.)


http://www.jlkstamps.com/guns/root.htm

[Matt Bastardson]

Here's a pretty Colt Root, ivory grips, cased and all.  Sweet.  (The case and accoutrements looks like it was from a Colt 1849 Pocket Model, now deceased.  LOL!)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133455343

[Mako]

Well, after reading all of your posts, and every one of them that regards someone else's gun, refutes them as a fake, it just isnt worth the effort for me to take it down from the shelf, photo it, and let someone bash it.
And yes, its real.
'Nuff said.

DM  (oh, and thanks for notating the Jesse James photo. That does clear that up.)

Dalton,
Now you know why I quit responding.  It's unfortunate, you were just trying to do what we used to always do on this board, just being honest and trading information and experiences.

Best to just back off and hope the problem will go away.  Rio and Hext haven' t had to deal with a problem on this board in a long time.  I'm not sure how often they even look in.  Lately there have been a lot of problems on the other boards, it seems we are not immune. 

Unfortunately you can't attach photos to PMs.  Someday I'd like to see your Colt Root.

Best to you Pard,
Mako

[Matt Bastardson]

Dalton,
Now you know why I quit responding.  It's unfortunate, you were just trying to do what we used to always do on this board, just being honest and trading information and experiences.

Best to just back off and hope the problem will go away.  Rio and Hext haven' t had to deal with a problem on this board in a long time.  I'm not sure how often they even look in.  Lately there have been a lot of problems on the other boards, it seems we are not immune. 

Unfortunately you can't attach photos to PMs.  Someday I'd like to see your Colt Root.

Best to you Pard,
Mako

So it's a "problem" to you when anybody tosses a little bit of reality into your little happy camp here?  Honest?  Trading information and experiences?  You're not being honest and trading information and experiences if you indeed believe that all of these 1849 Pocket Colts are magically popping up right and left out of the blue for you 'collectors' to horde.  And ditto for 1858 Remington's, Peacemakers, and any other desirable antique firearm that has noticeable increased in value in the past decade or so.  That's rich, that is.

And as for whomever said that there are 'lots' of original Colt Walkers out there.....there aren't.  There's a few...less than 200 known examples exist (out of the original 1100 produced), most of which are solid hunks of rust missing parts that still sell for $100,000 to 'collectors' such as yourself, apparently.  Very few original Colt Walkers exist in any sort of operable condition (I've seen 2 come to market in the past year or so...and these are tough times when people are selling stuff.)

I think some of you apparently live in some kind of alternate reality land when it comes to firearms, collecting, and 'fakes'.

If you guys were indeed being "honest" and looking to "trade information and experiences", we'd see threads on these forums whereby people were posting detailed photos of their guns (or guns they were interested in), and sharing information with each other and doing the research and collaborating on what to look for (or not look for) when it came to separating originals from fakes in the antique firearm market.
But you don't do that here.  What you do instead is get all pissed off when somebody dares mention the subject of fakes and forgeries of these pistols, each claim that your firearm is 'original', and call anybody who dares suggest otherwise "a problem".

That's a cabal -- not a forum, friend.

By the way...the 'period correct' fix for the Colt Walker loading lever dropping down during firing is a loop of rawhide around the barrel and loading lever, to answer the question posed in another thread.

[Matt Bastardson]

Hey, here's a thought...instead of claiming that all of your pistols are 'originals' because "you just know", how about instead explaining what exactly makes you believe that _your_ pistol is genuine.  You can start with the pocket 1849.  Be specific.

[Matt Bastardson]

Hey Stinky,
I see you decided to give yourself a new name.  It really doesn't fit.  Board Trolls need names to really set them apart and warn everyone who they are.  I think STINKY is much more appropriate and much less confusing.

I don't have a pocket 1849 but I do have a brand new Board Troll.  I tell you exactly why I think it is a genuine Troll.  Let me see, he appeared out of nowhere and proclaimed himself at first to be "jc," but he thought that might be a bit pretentious.  He is a know it all without any credentials, "street cred" or anything other than some photos of some very bad leather and a very few pistols that don't lend themselves to competition.  He's also rude and pushy which are hallmarks of a true Board Troll.  He also seems to have nothing else to do besides sit on these forums according to the statistics of his usage. See, so far I am 100%? 

I can give you more distinguishing features if you like, you just let me know, ok?

LOL!  Hmmmm.  I need neither "credentials" nor "street cred" to post here, friend.  The fact that that you and your compadres get your panties all in a bunch when we start talking guns leads me to believe that this isn't a pistol forum as much as it is an invitation-only Jergens party where everybody flashes each other their supposed 'originals' and congratulates each other on how savvy they believe they are.

I believe I've made an error here....as I thought you guys liked to discuss guns.  Instead, you just like petting them.  My mistake.

[Matt Bastardson]

What, you didn't like any of my guns (or leather) that I've posted yet?  Boo hoo hoo!, I'm just all broken up over that! LOL!  Don't worry, though....as I've got plenty more in the old safe where those came from.

Other than a stained copy of Flayderman's and that internet article on "Trolls" from 1999, I'm guessing that you probably don't read much, huh.  You fit in well here, friend.

[Dusty Morningwood]

Wow!  This thread got interesting, considering my original intent.  But I have no real doubts this is real.  With the pitting, no finish, heavily polished, etc., the cost of conterfeiting it would be easily double what is being asked for it.

[Camille Eonich]

There have been several reports on multiple posts in this thread.  I'm locking this thread until the moderators of the forum tell me otherwise since I don't know enough about the posters involved to make a judgment call.