Chaparral 76 question

[Joss House]

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I am thinking about purchasing one of the 1876 Chaparral's from auction on Gun broker. They seem to have a decent price, but I'm getting the feeling that they are not very favorable among many of you. I have read numerous threads here and it seems that when when first introduced they were the 'hot' item but after Uberti got into the picture they went to the bottom of the list.

I own several Uberti's and agree they are quality guns, but are the Chaparral's really that bad? The difference in price and for an occasional plinker, I'd be hard pressed to spend the extra coin for an Uberti. Many of you know me from the past so gunsmithing a 'clunker' isn't out of the question, but yet I don't want to waste $800 for a 'junker'. Here's the one I'm think about buying. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=125977139

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Joss
The Chaparral did have problems I know because I had one of them . I had to send mine back a couple times . After all that it's a decent rifle but Charlie Brown out of Ohio has dropped them .  That means there repair work which was done at Charter Arms is
well who knows . The moral of the story is if you by a Uberti in 3 months if you need a part they will still be there to sell it to you .

[Black River Smith]

Joss,

The text states 'No Sales to California'.  That may affect your decision.

BRS

[Joss House]

Joss,

The text states 'No Sales to California'.  That may affect your decision.

BRS

Now what the heck is up with that? I didn't see that before, I'd probably go through Joel Rezac anyway. But no sale in California.

[ndnchf]

Doesn't CDNN sell Chapparals new for $699?  Its been mentioned here before.  You might check their website.

[Grizzly Adams]

Doesn't CDNN sell Chapparals new for $699?  Its been mentioned here before.  You might check their website.

Yep, I have a flyer from CDNN that lists the Chaparral rifle at $699 and the carbine at $799.  Worth checking to see if they still have any in stock at those prices.

Quality control on the Chaparrals has been inconsistent, but for $699 a fella could feel ok about a "kit gun" provided your handy - and you just might get lucky!

Oh, and Welcome to the fire, Joss.

[Joss House]

Thanks for the welcome, Grizzly.

I've been searching the internet and found out a lot more information about the Chaparrals. I didn't know before but they are made by Armi San Marcos. I have four ASM revolvers which fortunately are fine guns, but I have worked on several for club members over the years which were virtually junk. I think I'll pass on the Chaparral unless I find one locally that I can physically examine first.

[larryo_1]

I have to  put in my two bits here about the Chaparral rifles.  I, also, had bad luck with one and even the second one.  After that I got a Uberti and problem solved.  I had quite a battle with those Chappy folks and part of it was the fault of UPS but that is another story altogether.  I would definitely recommend getting a Uberti tho and shy away from the Chappys.

[john boy]

Joss:  The Uberti '76 is pretty much trouble free.  The Chaparrals had one major production fault ... lack of Quality Control.  The gamut of quality ran from VG - Avg - Fair to P Poor.  Aside from the issues I had with mine, whoever made the barrels for the '76's did an excellent job.  Mine with smokeless and BP shoots accurately to 500 meters.  At 100 and 300yds - sub MOA and MOA groups

As for who owns Chaparral, it is Nicola Nauti, former owner of ASM and Angelo Buffoli, a financial backer of Chaparral Arms.  ASM was purchased by American Western Arms but possible that employees from ASM came to work for Chaparral.  One of the major reasons for the PP QC is that Angelo's wife is a top Italian fashion model, high maintenance and spends Angelo's cash faster than he can make it.

Nicola tried to improve QC, but the idiot employees for what ever reason didn't buy in and Nicola for some reason didn't fire those that wouldn't.

I sent over a half dozen emails to Nicola and Angelo.  It was only Nicola that promptly responded to them.  Not a peep from Angelo.  Even Nick Ecker, owner-Charter Arms, sent one to Chaparral on my behalf and it was Nicola only that responded.

With respect to Charter Arms, their service point, I made 2 trips to their CT facility.  Nick could not have been more helpful and gracious.  He even huddled with me on the workbench to figure out the issues and I had free reign to the parts drawers.  Maybe, it was the boxes of chocolates that I brought Nick's sister-in-law that works in the office ... that got me good service 

The bottom line - IF, Chaparral employees had spent a half to a hour more to properly fit parts and IF the In Charge of QC was the biggest - meanest - quality gunsmith in Italy ... All of us would be singing the praises of Chaparral.

This is my story and opinion - and I'm sticking to it

[Joe Lansing]

        I  own a '76 Chaparral by way  of Buffalo Arms. After a thorough examination, I was somewhat disappointed. It was full of mechanical flaws, but nothing that needed replacement. What it needed was a serious tune up which included a re-conturing of the affected parts. These included the receiver (where it meets the magazine tube), lever,  elevator arm , hammer,and the lever lock.
        Fortunately, none of these "adjustments" cost me a dime. In addition to the tune-up, I had the barrel turned to half round and reduced the magazine to half, with a button tip. I must also confess to changing the sights and adding a tang sight.
        All in all it turned out so good and shot so well that I had the side plate engraved with my initials in period style. Not everyone may be up to the task or simply may not want to bother accepting the challenge, so in all fairness I cannot recommend doing this to anyone. It's got to be a personal decision.
                                                        J.L.                     

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Boys ,
When I was having trouble with my rifle it was Nick at Charter that took care of me . While all the trouble was going on,  I called Nick one day and was explaining my troubles . He introduced Angelo and ask me to Explain on the phone my problems . Angelo didn't have a clue or didn't give a rip . The moral of the story Don't by a Chaparral unless you are a gunsmith with a full stocked shop . I had hoped they would clean there own mess up but when Charlie of MKS dropped them that said it all .

[farrow3240]

Got a Chap. off of one of the internet firearms sites in 50-95. Not the same quality as a Uberti but shoots like a house a fire. Several problems though, Rear sight UNUSABLE (put an original Winchester sight on it), lower tang wood screw stripped out, lower butt plate screw stripped out, and magazine tube is moving forward from recoil (any solutions?), wood to metal fit is horrible but serviceable, got a new bolt from the importer and solved the ejection problem, but other than that shoots quite well. I also have a Uberti in 45-75, only problem with it was the chamber and I sent it back and a new barrel was installed with the correct chamber dimensions, took 5 months but I finally got it back. I can see that the Chap is going to be a project rifle but i like to tinker, so it is going to have all new wood fore and aft (ie. shotgun butt, REAL walnut and maybe actual color csae hardening) Any input on the magazine tube would be helpful, Thanks.

[Grizzly Adams]

Got a Chap. off of one of the internet firearms sites in 50-95. Not the same quality as a Uberti but shoots like a house a fire. Several problems though, Rear sight UNUSABLE (put an original Winchester sight on it), lower tang wood screw stripped out, lower butt plate screw stripped out, and magazine tube is moving forward from recoil (any solutions?), wood to metal fit is horrible but serviceable, got a new bolt from the importer and solved the ejection problem, but other than that shoots quite well. I also have a Uberti in 45-75, only problem with it was the chamber and I sent it back and a new barrel was installed with the correct chamber dimensions, took 5 months but I finally got it back. I can see that the Chap is going to be a project rifle but i like to tinker, so it is going to have all new wood fore and aft (ie. shotgun butt, REAL walnut and maybe actual color csae hardening) Any input on the magazine tube would be helpful, Thanks.

This is a pic of the arrangement used in the original 1876.  I understand the Chappy is the same.



Note that the underside of the barrrel is relieved by having a slotted channel machined into the underside to accommodate the tab on the magazine tube cap.  Is the tab fitted properly in the slot?  In addition, there is a crosspin that passes through the upper part of the magazine tube bearing (hanger) and through a grove cut into the top side of the magazine tube.  That crosspin must be captured by that grove.  Also check the fit of the magazine tube bearing, as  some of those are fitted "poorly"on the Chappies.   If any of these areas are not properly aligned/fitted, the tube will move under recoil.  Sounds like nit picking, but if these components are sloppy, your gonna have problems!

[farrow3240]

Hi Griz,
           Mine has the same arrangement on the front of the tube as you show in the pic, The mag bearing or holder  has some slop in it. I also noticed when I disassembled it Sunday that the cross pin had let the mag tube ride forward, i think having so much clearance in that ring let it ride under the pin past the slot cut in the mag tube. I put some shim stock in the ring to hold the mag tube tighter against the barrel but I think that it might move under recoil also, so I was looking for some solutions you guys might have for a permanent fix. Also do you think it would hurt to have it re case hardened the correct way since what the Italians do is not really color case hardening in my opinion. Thanks for your response.

[Dirty Brass]

My tube did that on my Uberti too with the 45/75. I ionsaatalled an oversized compression pin (slotted pin) and that did the trick. Just a small amount of looseness in the pin slot/hole causes a whole lot of problems under recoil I found out. 

[ndnchf]

I was curious, so I pulled out my Uberti .50-95. It does NOT have the tab lock on the end of the mag tube.  The mag tube appears to be retained soley by the hanger and pin.  The hanger is a nice tight fit to the tube and it has never moved, so it seems to work fine. 

I wonder if that tab on the end was a running change on originals - either early or late production or was it used from begining to end    Did Uberti copy one that didn't have it or make a conscious decision not to use it?  Perhaps it was not used on .50-95s due to the thinness of the barrel   

You'd think they would have to be pretty confident in the tube hanger to eliminate the end tab.

Maybe Buck can answer that one.   

UPDATE:

I just looked in the comparing an Original with an Uberti thread and see that Griz answers this question:

 http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,17987.20.html

Thanks Griz!

[farrow3240]

Just got back from the range, fired 15 rounds and mag tube did not move, shimming the ring must have helped, time will tell. My Uberti 45-75 has not moved yet, but I have not had it back long enough to shoot it and see. Thanks for the help and I will keep you posted on any more problems that crop up on either of them. see ya'll later.

[john boy]

Recommendation:  If shooting from bench rest or sticks - don't rest the magazine tube on them.  The recoil will exert force on the end cap and the tube will move forward out of the receiver channel cut

[evodude]

I have to throw my two cents in, I own 3 Chappys, one in .40-60 and two in .50-95. The latter two were from CDNN and the first one from Gunbroker. Had to stone the .40-60's sear engaging to smooth it up a bit and cut a burr down that would occasionally cause it to go to half cock when trigger was pulled. Easy adjustment and a snap to work on. These, like the '73, are a snap to work on. I shoot the heck out of all three of them, and havent had problem one- casting my own bullete has opened me up to a couple hundred rounds of shooting plates on any given day. (price for living only a couple miles from the range!!!) All three give me great accuracy, and after break in, all are smooth. I think the issues mustve been with the earlier models, because with the exception of the .40 cal, havent had to deal with anything else. AND, you cant beat the price at CDNN! They sell em cheaper than even Gunbroker!! Now you can get the .50-95 dies from RCBS for 35 bucks as well, so getting set up for loading the .50-95 just got a whole lot desireable. Buy the Chappy, and put the 400 bucks you save in powder,brass, and big chunks of lead!!!

[farrow3240]

Shot my Uberti 45-75 today and nothing moved that should'nt have. Accuracy was ok but not as good as my chap. This was first time from a bench since I got it back so things may change after shooting it for a while. I shot the Chap with Black Powder and the RCBS 350 gr. bullet at 50 yards. 2 inch group from a bench, That's pretty good for just throwing some rounds together with a standard muzzleloader measure and not weighing them. I think the Chappy will be OK when i work the minor bugs out of it. I have to agree with Evodude about ease of working on them, there is not really much inside of one of em. Has anybody heard any more about brass availability from Jamison?

[larryo_1]

farrow3240:
Give Jamison a call at 605-347-5090.  I did and gave them my order.  Supposedly the brass will be available by June.  They said that they would  call me to verify my order with them when my brass (45-75) is ready.  It dont never hurt to yank a chain now and then as the squeeky hinge gets the oil first. 

[farrow3240]

Hi Larryo 1, Thanks for the number, I've been making both 45-75 and 50-95 from 50-90 Starline and also from .348 Win. The ones from 50-90's come out the best, ones from 348's look like little pop bottles until you shoot em a couple of times. I'm going to give Jamison a call and order some because I want the correct head stamp. See ya later.