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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Leather Shop (Moderators: Marshal Will Wingam, Ten Wolves Fiveshooter)  |  Topic: spot setting 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: spot setting  (Read 9596 times)
Justino Caballo
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« on: March 17, 2009, 10:28:11 am »


Hello All,

         I wanted to ask if there is anyone on the forum that could exlain to me the proper way to set spots. is there an established method, special tools, an easy way to make a jig? Anything will help, all i am doing is wasting spots.
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cowboy316
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 10:55:51 am »

JC
well tandy actually has a spot setter tool set for like 30 buck but i cant afford it right now so what i do is with the leather just a little damn so the prongs of the spot make a mark as to where you want it the use a  finish nail or sewing awl to punch your hole then just flatten out the prongs on the back and to make it easier to hole the spot for marking take one of the long copper riveets and solder it to the top of a spot you can spare so you have a little handel
    just my $.02 worth
      Cowboy316
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Flinch Morningwood
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2009, 11:05:09 am »

THis is the spot setter mentioned...well worth the money.  You sI do the setting on a rubber mat then fold the prongs in by hand with a flat punch...then set them with the same punch.


* Tandy Spot Setter 8114-50-L.jpg (7.38 KB, 252x252 - viewed 390 times.)
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Justino Caballo
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2009, 12:48:14 pm »

thanks fellers. i guess ill try and pick up that setter tool and play with it some. do i still need to use my awl to make holes or can the setter be used to push the spot in?
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 12:57:53 pm »

JC
if ya get that setter it will do the whole job at one time its a slick tool to have i used one once and swore ill have one some day but who knows LOL


      Cowboy316
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Ten Wolves Fiveshooter
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 01:04:54 pm »

Howdy Justino

        The link below will show you the tools I use, not cheap but I feel worth the money, it holds your spot for easy placement when I run into leather that doesn't want be penetrated, I use a narrow blade Exacto knife to make my holes first, after marking the distance between the prongs, either with the prongs them selves or wing dividers set at the same width as the prongs, Standard Rivet also make longer pronged spots, and barbed pronged spots to for thick leather, where you just punch the spot in and it will stay there.  Hope this helps

                                                           tEN wOLVES  Wink Grin


                            http://www.standardrivet.com/machines-tools/tools/82-hand-held-tool-for-setting-round-head-spots.php
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Justino Caballo
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 01:09:34 pm »

heck yes ten wolves! i need one of those. a great excuse to buy tools!
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 01:22:16 pm »

                Pard once you use this tool for setting your spots, you won't want anything else, and I fine Standard Rivets a great place to buy spots, there brass are solid brass not plated, and there prices are low, and you can buy the amount you want make sure you need enough things to order to off set the cost of shipping or it won't be worth your while, they get 16.00 for shipping.

      Justino, I also use this punch, you can set it for different widths, but make sure you buy the extra blades, they can break, this punch works best on the larger spots, because of the size of the hole, the smaller spots seem to push in with no problem, you just need to be careful as to how you set the spot in the tool, just have a little bit of the prong showing and keep the tool straight when you tap them in.  http://www.standardrivet.com/machines-tools/tools/80-hand-held-tool-with-blades.php


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ChuckBurrows
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 04:53:02 pm »

What TW said - the Standard Rivet tools aren't perfect (I've got some ideas and am working with a tool maker so maybe one of these days...) but are much better than the Tandy ones - voice of experience I guess since I set 5-6,000 of the dad blamed things by hand every year......
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aka Nolan Sackett
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2009, 05:23:25 pm »

I personally haven't had much luck with the spot setters as the prongs are just not that strong and tend to bend.I made me a tool with two projections that mark the holes and then I finish them with an awl. Bend over the prongs with a tack hammer.
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2009, 06:33:06 pm »

Is there a better product out there that will give the same look, but is more secure?
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Ten Wolves Fiveshooter
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2009, 08:22:34 pm »

  Grin Howdy Mongo


           Once you have turned your prongs in on the wider spots, and outward on the 1/8", then you tap them down with a flat round punch, I picked one up at Harbor Freight for a couple bucks, I like the 1/2" head, it covers the bent over prongs better, but I have several sizes, I just find myself using the 1/2" one more, once you have done this , they're in there to stay, but you have to have BOTH PRONGS THROUGH THE LEATHER AND TURNED, if you don't do this, and there is only one prong that is through the leather, it can rip out. I use a Pound-O-Board under my work, and after I have installed my spots on the finished side, the prongs are stuck in the Pound-O-Board, so when you pull your work up from the PB, that further pulls the prongs through the leather.


                                                   tEN wOLVES  Wink Cheesy Grin
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2009, 08:47:51 pm »

Howdy Pards,
 Well Mister Cheapo here! When I go to garage sales if i can buy a wood paddel bit for a 25 cents, I buy from small to 5/8" and then I will go to work with my cuts and grinders and dremel and files and make me a 2 pronged punch for each side of spot i use, I find out were I want my spot, push it down lightly so i have a small impression, and then place my tool on the marks and then a smack it with a mallet which makes my cuts, push my spots thew and tap them over.
I am cheap!

Ace

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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2009, 12:07:54 am »

Well, Chuck answered my question; Is this tool from Standard really better than Tandy's? I've had so little success with spots I've about given up on using them, even though I would really like to use them.

I've watched Chuck set them on his DVD, but it sure doesn't work that way for me! What a shock, could experience be a factor Tongue

Thanks Justino for asking the question, and thanks to 10W and Chuck for weighing in
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cactus cowboy
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2009, 04:34:47 am »

I just saw the Tandy spot setter online today when I was ordering some supplies. It looks like you need a tool to do just about everything (except empty your wallet). Hey Ace,  would you mind putting up a picture of the gizmo you made?

Cactus
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RollingThunder
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2009, 08:17:14 am »

Here's how I do them (and I do have the Tandy Spot setter, but don't use it for the entire process any more).

I mark my spot hole, then punch two holes just to the inside of that mark. I push the spot in, and then use the spot setter to set the prongs in, and then one tap on the anvil to flatten them. You could also use a pair of pliers to squeeze the prongs in.

I also set spots before any oils or dyes, so that if I get a teensy bit of gap between the spot prong and the leather, it will swell back out with the oil/dye.

Spots set ...


Oil done -- dye on ...


Dye rubbed ...


And finished ... note that I antiqued the spots even more. Something you can keep in mind when wanting a little more "age" to your pieces.


And one, just 'cause I liked how the picture turned out. Sometimes the sun shines on the southbound end of a northbound dog.


Hope that helps.
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2009, 11:22:12 am »

This is another very informative thread. I've put a link to it in our FAQ thread. Many thanks to all who have contributed to this one.
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cactus cowboy
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2009, 02:54:34 pm »

Thanks for the tips. Beautiful cuffs by the way. I'm totally impressed,  hopefully someday I can get to that level. How did you age your spots?

Cactus
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RollingThunder
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2009, 06:48:49 pm »

Stain. And lots of it. During the rubbing process, the stain gets up on the spots. Well, if you let it get up there and stay there, the spots will hold the color. If you rub the excess off, you get an antique feel to it. Then when you finish the leather, you apply whatever finish (wax, super shene, saddlelac) over the spots as well, or seal them with a matte finish.
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2009, 07:36:53 pm »

I usually measure the spread between the prongs, mark the leather with a red ballpoint pen or the point of an awl, then use a SMALL optical screwdriver (the kind with the swivel top), tapping it hard enough with a hammer to punch through the leather.  The spots I use are from Tandy.  The length of the prongs are suitable for the following:  1/4" dia. = 8-9 oz maximum; 3/8" dia 9-10 oz. max.

After punching the slits with the screwdriver, I press the prongs through the slits and then bend them over with a needlenose pliars, turn the piece over, laying the spot against a piece of leather or rubber "pound" mat, and then use a hammer to set the prongs flush.

This method is slow, but I don't get a whole LOT of call for spots.  That said, I just completed a holster and belt for a customer and installed 62 ea. 1/4" spots on the holster and 94 ea. 3/8" spots on the belt (53-inch waist  Tongue ).

Hope this helps.
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2009, 10:11:39 pm »

That sounds like a whole bunch of spot setting there Trailrider. I hope I can ask a curoius question here: How to you determine how much to charge when doing that many spots?

General ballpark is fine. I appreciate it, JD
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2009, 10:32:22 pm »

I mark the spot location with my wing divider, making the marks just a hair narrower than the prongs on the spot. Then I use Craftool #481 to make the slits for the spots. I poke the spot thru the holes.
I have a piece of leather with a hole punched in it that I set the spot upside down in. This keeps the spot from moving around while I am folding the prongs in.
I use an old seeder that was damaged to push the prongs in, and then seat them down farther with the same seeder.
Has worked great for me, for several projects. It only takes a moment for each one.

I also have the Tandy spot setter, but I find my way much easier, and more accurate to set the spots.

DM
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2009, 12:06:51 am »

Hi Dalton, do you use the wing divider to get the space correct between the spots? Or is it possible you are using the wing divider to mark the 2 hole placements? Craftool 481 appears to be a small flower stamp, and I don't see it listed any more. Is this information correct? 

The Tandy spot prongs seem to be wider than the domes. Do you end up crimping each one? Perhaps you use some other brand of spots.

I've got a request to make a new billet for a buddy who's gun belt "shrunk". It's black, with lots of small spots, which I will have to replicate.

I suggested movning the billet, but then you've got holes in the leather that will be seen

Thanks for any help you can give Dalton, you are the Bomb! JD
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2009, 07:45:25 am »

The tool I use is not a flower, unless someone modified it before I got it. Its plated tho, so I dont think it was probably a modified tool. It is basically a very small chisel, with a sharp little end that is the size of the spot prong.

I have 2 wing dividers. I use one to set my spacing, and the other is set for the prongs.

I use Tandy spots, as well as some I bought off of Ebay in bulk. I make the slits narrower than the prongs either way, so that they stay under the spot when completed, and the hole is under the dome, mostly.

Any way you can use the old spots? I have pulled some off of old harnesses, and bridles to be reused with little problems. Sometimes its destructive to get them off tho, or a prong will break. Then I just flatten the prong out flat again, and reuse. Might take a lot of time with the tiny ones tho.

Good luck to you, JD.

DM
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2009, 09:06:54 am »

Thanks Dalton, two wing dividers makes sense. I have tried all sorts of things to punch holes for the spots. I found the little adjustable tool Chuck uses in his DVD. Tandy doesn't carry it, but Oregon Leather did. It only comes with one set of prongs, and they are too thick for the small spots. I'd like to be able to buy extra prongs for this tool, but I can't find them anywhere.

Any chance you could post a picture of the tool you use to punch the holes?

Once again, thanks for your help and generous spirit, JD

   


* punch tool mod 1.JPG (63.79 KB, 401x640 - viewed 377 times.)
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