R & D customer service question

[Lone Oak]

Almost a year ago I ordered a conv. cylinder for my '51 Navy directly from R & D after talking to them on the phone. They told me the item I wanted was in stock ready to ship. I foolishly sent them a money order (don't do credit cards) and from then on I have gotten a run around from them on the rare occasions when they answered email or the phone. I am quite sure the money is gone and I'll never see the cylinder. Anyone else have similar experiences with them? I was hoping they were different than that but I'm not sure now.
L.O.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

I'm VERY sad to learn of your experience with them.  I have a pair of Uberti 1861's that I'd like for them to work their magic on.

With that said, however, I've had much better luck ordering R&D conversion cylinders from folks like Taylors.  They buy in quantity, and so have a much greater influence with the folks at R&D.  You might wanna try to get a refund from R&D, and re-place your order with folks like Taylors or EMF.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

[Fox Creek Kid]

Quick answer. Kenny Howell is a lousy businessman. I know people who have waited over FIVE years and had to retain attorneys.

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[Hoof Hearted]

Sad but true.

I was a dealer for Kenny at the very beginning of the "conversion cylinder" phase.
I have quite a few of his complete conversions and bought them all second hand (never received the one I paid for and lost the pistol I sent him). By the way these pistols run from poor to decent quality (I guess they had "Friday" guns too).

I spoke to his son in law? a while back and he told me that he now owned the "drop in" business, but his "customer service" is no better. Seems Kenny was going to make "runs" of complete conversions and the son in law was going to handle everything else.

It's really a shame I'd be embarassed if I was them.

Kinda funny how much different Walt Kirst is, he'll bend over backward and his word is that of a true gentleman.

[Dalton Masterson]

Hmm, I had no problem at all when I sent in my 51 to get a cylinder fit. Took about 2 weeks, free of charge. Very nice action when I got it back.
DM

[Sgt. Jake]

    After over a year Im still wating for him to return my calls about the improperly heat treated firing pins in two cylinders,I purchased,aint holding my breath. Skined that cat  a different way,had Happy Trails make up replacement pins. His pins are properly heat treated, he made some extras for stock, I used them in every match from last july on. Two to three matchs a month from july to end of Oct., well its late and math wasnt my best subject. The original pins didnt make it 50 rounds,very deformed on both ends of the pins,very unhappy.I wish Id waited a few months more and went with Kirst,at the time I ordered the R&D cyl. Walt hadnt made any conversion cyl. for the 1860.Just my experinces,yours may vary,Good Luck.                Adios  Sgt.Jake

[Major 2]

Like just about everything else .... Mileage will vary 

I have a Kenny Howell 1860 Type I conversion .... At the time, Krist refused to even do 1860's Drop in Cylinders.
It's a fine pistol....

I also have one of R&D's Drop in's in another 2nd Gen. Colt ( very minor adj to get it the run smooth as Glass )
and n issue in three years.

[Lone Oak]

Thanks, everyone,  for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I'm not doubting that R&D makes good quality products. I've seen and handled some of their conversions and was impressed, that's why I decided to get it  from them. Just damned disappointed with them. I'm sure Kirst has top quality too.

I have sent for another conv.cyl. from another reliable source and requested a refund from R&D. I figure if I ever see the refund it'll be a nice surprise. This might turn out to be an expensive lesson for me or I might someday see the refund-either way, it's a lesson learned!

L.O.

[Major 2]

I actually bought mine slightly used through the classified ads here.
It had been in a Uberti 1860... it was like new , I did not buy the Uberti though.
Price was about 1/2 and I bought it with the intention to drop it into my 32 year old (I'm the orginal owner) 2nd Gen Colt.
Not wanting to go $ 240 experimenting (if it did not fit)...
As I said only very minor adj (lighten the handspring) and it was a dead nuts fit , that was three years ago.
 

It is the gun I'm most fond of...of course I've had it 32 years and 29 of those it was my favorite C&B

[Hoof Hearted]

I actually bought mine slightly used through the classified ads here.
It had been in a Uberti 1860... it was like new , I did not buy the Uberti though.
Price was about 1/2 and I bought it with the intention to drop it into my 32 year old (I'm the orginal owner) 2nd Gen Colt.
Not wanting to go $ 240 experimenting (if it did not fit)...
As I said only very minor adj (lighten the handspring) and it was a dead nuts fit , that was three years ago.
 

It is the gun I'm most fond of...of course I've had it 32 years and 29 of those it was my favorite C&B

Not being defensive here Lust trying to clarify!

I didn't say they HADN"T and I didn't sat they COULDN"T make good parts or guns.
I did say that some of their custom gun work was spotty.
And that their customer service was LOUSY.

I also said it was a shame and shame on them

[Deadeye Don]

I agree with Daniel Nighteyes suggestion.  I have had good luck with Taylors.  In fact what I have done is order the revolver and  RandD cylinders at the same time from Taylors through my FFL Andy Fulks at Fall Creek Sutlery.   Taylors makes sure the gun and cylinder are a good fit before they ship them.  You might have to ask them to do that, but they will do it free of charge.  I have RandD cylinders for all of my percussion guns except for my Uberti Paterson only because they dont make one for it!!

[Major 2]

Hoof... I was not arguing 
Just offered different mileage as it were ...

I contacted R&D about 3 years ago to have a 2 Gen. Navy conveted, took about 4 weeks for them to respond.
That responds stated the turnaround time was 9-11+ months and the price something on the order of $975-1100 on my Donor gun. 


 





 

[Hoof Hearted]

Hoof... I was not arguing 
Just offered different mileage as it were ...

I contacted R&D about 3 years ago to have a 2 Gen. Navy conveted, took about 4 weeks for them to respond.
That responds stated the turnaround time was 9-11+ months and the price something on the order of $975-1100 on my Donor gun. 

I completely understand! That's why I used the disclaimer

But R&D's lack of customer service really is not the same thing as whether or not their drop in conversion cylinders are any good or not (and they are! I have half a dozen or so).

It's kinda like buying a "Made in China" tool from Lowes; We all know the Chinese manufacturer ain't gonna stand behind it..........but Lowes will Same thing goes for buying an R&D clyinder from Midway, Taylors, Brownells, etc.

Just don't expect R&D to

[mrbig6045]

ive sent two pistols off to r&d for work,got them back promtly and really love shooting them both,no problems at all

[Lone Oak]

Since R&D has not responded to me emailing them canceling my order and requesting a refund, I tried calling them but of course no answer except the machine that picked up and said they were closed until Jan. 5th or 6th. I had their web site in my favorites and just tried to go there and a message comes up saying  the "account has been suspended" so I don't know what that may mean but no doubt my $250+ is gone. What a bummer.

[warbucks16]

Lone Oak:

I had a similar situation several years ago except they were in to me for over $700.00.

No E-mails returned or phone answered so I wrote a letter to them demanding they contact me concerning my order and sent it by Certified Mail with Proof of Signature and time of receipt to be returned to me.  In addition I sent a copy to the State Better Business Bureau.

I received a phone call from them within a week and had my refund shortly thereafter.

I know we all hate to do things like this but it is better than losing the money.

Regards,

Warbucks16

[Major 2]

In another post... we just learned of the passing of Kenny Howell's Wife 
this is very sad and suggests Health issues may have been the reason for the non responces , as she ran the Business side of R&D.
I am saddend and offer my condolences to Kenny and the family.   

[Hoof Hearted]

In another post... we just learned of the passing of Kenny Howell's Wife 
this is very sad and suggests Health issues may have been the reason for the non responces , as she ran the Business side of R&D.
I am saddend and offer my condolences to Kenny and the family.   

Major

Just to clarify, she passed about a year ago. So sad
I believe that was the reason the son in law? took over the retail end of the business.
Here is the thread that I believe you are referring to:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,15612.msg259414.html#msg259414

and a quote:

Well, I wish that these threads would have been available quite a while ago.

I sent Mr. Howell an original Sharps barrel and receiver, which he inspected and was going to rebuild into an 1869 transition period business rifle for me. He came highly recommended and the terms seemed to be reasonable; 50% down and balance on delivery - take about 1 year to build, more if I bugged him. So I sent him a check for $1,200 to get started.

Well, that was in August of 1999 - and I'm still waiting for my rifle. I never got the "receipt and build agreement" sent to me either.

While Mr. Howell was available on the phone back then, about 2001 he stopped being available and I always talked to his wife. And she stopped being available over a year ago. I have since heard that she has passed on, which I am sorry to hear and wish Mr. Howelll my sincerest condolences. His wife was always a pleasure to talk to and tried to give me some indication of what was happening - we talked just frequently enough that she was often able to recognize my voice after I said 'hello'.

If anyone has an idea about how I might contact Mr. Howell, I would be very appreciative of their help.

Tom Tilley
NRA Member (Patron)

[Fox Creek Kid]

Kenny has since remarried. 

[Lone Oak]

I have to report here that the place I had ordered another R&D gated conversion cylinder from was out of stock. As happens to me often when I put my foot in my mouth, today, the UPS truck drove in the yard and handed me the conversion cylinder  I had ordered from R&D! So, Ken Howell came through and I hope I didn't bad mouth them too badly here. I called them right away and got things right with them and they apologized for taking so long. The parts are wonderfully made and the chambers line up exactly with the barrel w/o any mods to the internals. Now I will get the ring mounted and cut the loading groove and start having fun with it. Oh that's right, it's January here in MN......

Lone Oak