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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  NCOWS (Moderator: Will Ketchum)  |  Topic: How Far Will You go With Your Personna? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: How Far Will You go With Your Personna?  (Read 10325 times)
Griff
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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2005, 07:48:12 pm »

All,
I've been doing CAS for about 20 years.  Done it all, primitive camp, travel trailer, motel.  Each trip was dependant on circumstances, time mostly was the deciding factor.  I've attended shoots, ran shoots, etc.  Have taken the wife and kid on all of the above trips, had their help and support at each also.  Wife doesn't care for the primitive way, but puts up with it for me.  Sometimes had to do things that were wrong for period for the sake of scorekeeping (computer and registration duties).  Long story that I'll try to make short; doesn't involve shooting but gives you an idea of how others (especially those not involved in history or CAS view those that go the distance:  During a civic trail ride on the Waggoner Ranch outside Decatur, TX one July weekend, I went dressed as I normally do while attending a match.  Canvas trousers, collarless shirt, (yep, long sleeve undershirt, but no longies in consideration of the day's heat), wool vest, leather chaps, gunbelt, holster (hi rider for horseback work), widebrimmed beaver/felt hat, silk kerchief, heeled riding boots, spurs etc.  Horse was equipped with 19teens mfg saddle, slicker, rope, saddlepockets, scabbard, '94 carbine.  You get the picture.  It was around 100 in the shade.  Pardon my language, but I sweated my behind off.  While standing in chow line, a young lady behind me asked, "aren't you hot in all that gear?"
My answer, in all truth, was, "Yep, but not uncomfortably so."  Why, every thing I had on was of a natural fiber, they breathe, in the breeze the sweat I produced was wicked off the soaked clothes and kept my body temp down.  I'm also sure that I was more comfortable the next day than she was, especially as the bikini top she was wearing offered no protection from the Texas sun.  I'm also sure that anyone downwind of me wasn't pleased, but....
I dress that way a lot, so the heat didn't really bother me, however, everyone has to decide these things for themselves.  Use uncommon good sense.  And I stress the words "uncommon" and "good".  
BTW, after chow, they handed out door prizes and such.  I was very proud that the organizers picked me as the "Best prepared Cowboy" of the day.  It was worth the effort.
If you're going to do the primitive (relative term) thing, you'd better do your homework and be prepared for the hardships, etc. that come with it.   If you go partway, but wanna appear correct, keep the modern stuff under wraps.  Work up to whatever level you feel confident with.  If you're doin' the whole enchilada, help those that ask the questions, but inform them of the pitfalls and mistakes that can be fatal.  Keep it real.
New stuff, don't worry about it looking new, keep it within your persona.  Most shoots are shot around town-type props, so if someone asks about why you're cleanshaven, got a clean shirt/pants, new hat, gun, etc., tell 'em.  "I just come from the bathhouse, bought it or whatever!"  Remember, in 1890, your 1873 Colt/Winchester didn't look 132 years old!  I didn't invent that philosophy, a Civil War/Indian Wars re-enactor espoused that when I mentioned I'd like the chaps he was making for me to be aged.  It made good sense then, and now.
The primitive thing is difficult, as life was then, maybe more so, as we have to shuck the mindset of the early 21st century and what we expect in the way of creature comforts.  Those that do it deserve our respect, those that try and fail, deserve our understanding, those that don't try also deserve our understanding, as this is meant to be fun!  Challenge is where you find it.  For some, the shooting is challenge enough.  For others the costuming is their challenge, and for those few hardy souls, the lifestyle is the holy grail.  None is better than the others, just different.
Lastly, I lost a costume contest in '88 or '89 at EOT cause in the pockets of my buckskins I had some modern money.  Never thought it would get down to "empty your pockets" to decide which outfit was best!  Haven't entered a costume contest since then as I feel the need to "quench my thirst/wash the traildust down" with a cool one when the day is done or while playing few cards in the saloon and ain't goin to that length.  Make me a chicken?  Ok, guilty as charged.  No, I ain't willing to be hanged!
Besides, the really hardy ones, arrive at the shoot/camp via horseback, or ox wagon.  I ain't seen one yet, except at a Rendevous, and we know how crazy those folks are!!! Wink
Griff
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Delmonico
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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2005, 08:47:04 pm »

I have the most fun with those "arn't you hot in those clothes folks."  Well I explain to them how just because their brain thinks they are cooler than I am, they really are not, if it is really hot they are in more danger of heat stroke than I am.  If they try to tell me I am wrong I ask them how their Hydration is doing.  Well most don't know what that means, let alone how to check it.  Perhaps my pard and I should do an artcle on this for "The Shootist"  I thought I knew a lot about it till I met and learned more from him.   

WW, It's hard to snore when you are up tending fire, checkin' on things that are cookin' and other things that cooks have to do.  We ussually get about 2-4 hours of broken sleep between maybe 1 and 6.  And 2-4 days of that is about as far as I'm going to carry it. Grin
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2005, 08:38:41 am »

The way I snore, you'll want me to sleep with the cooks, Wymore. Smiley  It sounds like a do-able thing.  That isn't that far from me.  I remember one day, way back when, Del gave me his views on this whole thing with being cooler by having more clothes on.  He was right.  I was sweating more though, but I was conscious of it and drank a lot more water than usual and got along just fine.
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2005, 10:36:13 am »

If not, they wouldn't dressed that way.  Many folks think they were not as smart back then as today, I think on average they were smarter than folks today.  The really dumb ones died out quickly with out warning labels to tell them not to be stupid. Grin
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Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

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Knuckles McDaniel
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2005, 11:02:33 am »

if i played the game for for real _Iwould be DEAD for sure
for with out the medicine of today I,ll be a goner
be cause my aliments , and or my mouth and chasing women would have me  be dead.
for i cant control the Irish in me .

plus the life exspect of a saloon piano player is not  that high any way. Be cause of stray bullets flying and getting  shot in the back by some drunk cowboy.

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Jake Book
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2017, 12:00:04 pm »

 Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I was going through the archive here and this came to my attention.

 I think on the subject of how far one will go, there needs to be a distinction made.

 In different reenacting circles I've heard many a people justify all number of anachronisms by equating things like period diseases and transportation with being historically correct. So for instance the conversation might go something this.

 "Can you please provide some documentation for X, Y, Z"

 "Well, it's not period, but did you get to this event in a wagon?? You gonna get a period disease?? Leave me alone!"

 So I think one must make a few distinctions.

 If you have a disease, let's say diabetes you are obviously going to need to bring your medicine, shots etc. That's essential for you to live. So, hiding it in a period container is perfectly fine.
 
 On the other hand, packing a box of Oreo cookies in your camp box, or bringing a cooler fool of mountain dew and throwing it under a blanket or canvas, is not essential for you to live.

 Just because someone needs medicine, or because they drove to the event in an SUV, doesn't have anything to do with being authentic. We can't help the century we live in. But what I have on my body, in my pockets, in my camp etc. is all completely up to me. That becomes the place where one can push themselves to go above and beyond and create a window into the past.

 Just some thoughts!
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2017, 05:01:18 pm »

I've been asking to get hanged for some time, just no body willing to pull the rope. Grin Grin Grin

Call me.  We can set a date and time and get 'er done.   Cheesy
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2017, 06:08:31 pm »

Call me.  We can set a date and time and get 'er done.   Cheesy

Unfortunately, Gopher Grease passed a number of years ago. The Big C.

We know he's being gloried and fussed over in Heaven by the Marines residing there. He was a Navy Corpsman. Grin


RCJ
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« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2017, 11:43:56 am »

We know he's being gloried and fussed over in Heaven by the Marines residing there. He was a Navy Corpsman. Grin
Yep and when we get there I'm sure there will be a number of us GAF types trying to repay the compassions he showed us at Musters.

As to the original question.

As hard as I try, I don't do a very good job of talking in first person using period terms. Also, I'm pretty sure I'd be dead by this age and even if I weren't I wouldn't have made it out of my teens with all of my appendages intact as I was hospitalized twice for infection in real life. Also I don't look much like someone from that time. I'm too tall, too fat and I have an untanned strip on my wrist. Wink
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« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2017, 10:24:07 pm »

I did not reply the first time around, but now that I am retired and bored, I shall regale you with my thoughts and dementia!

I myself got into it all in '73 at The Feast Of The Hunter's Moon ( where they were stich counters) but every one was terribly nice to a newby kid, loaned me gear, put up with me, and I got to  play with front-loaders and make smoke and throw hawks and stuff. The 1976 BiCentennial was around the corner, so a lot of Rev War stuff was going on. It was a grand time.

I got into the more serious Historical Re-enactment stuff when Historic Fort Snelling was willing to take me on as an unpaid summer volunteer in exchange for being assigned to the Journeyman Blacksmith as his apprentice so's I could learn the basics  of the trade.
They supplied me with the complete gear for a private in 1814, from shoes to cap, and accepted my safety glasses and earplugs for safety.

Next I ran the barn-based blacksmith shop (as an unpaid volunteer) at Historic Gibbs Farm, ca. 1880.

I got to hang around with a lot of serious re-enactors, some of whom who also rented themselves out to movies.

With the above in mind I came up with some  Basic Rules:
#1 Safety first!

#2 It's just a game

#3 Because of #1 and #2 It's not worth risking your life or health

#4 Try your best, within your budget, to use clothing, equipment, & tools appropriate to the times.
           when in doubt , see rule #1  and #2 and #3

#5 If you have a persona do your best to research and maintain it appropriately, for the sake of the other players and any audience
           when in doubt , see rule #1  and #2  and #3

#6 Just because ignorance, poor hygene, and lunacy occurred in past eras doesn't mean it was pandemic.
           when in doubt.... you get the picture

Remember, in 1300AD the Arab World had cures for the Black Plague and understood that it was spread by fleas.
Due to the Dark Ages, Ignorance and Superstition in parts of Europe caused the problem.

yhs
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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2017, 11:41:57 pm »

Prof Marvel, I like what you say.  The Arabs may have understood, but I believe if any one would check out Deuteronomy in Old Testament they would find a lot of cleanliness laws that make sense even in modern times, i.e. don't crap next to your tent.  If your kid mouths off, kill him/her, it is easier to make a new one since you probably had 7 or 8 wives.   Grin
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« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2017, 03:07:53 am »

 Sounds like we've established that nobody wants to contract a deadly disease of the period etc. But I don't think this really gets at the heart of what "going far" with your persona is really all about.

 Let's restate the question a little.

 How far will you go with your Clothing? How far will you go with your choice of camp equipment? How far will you go with your firearms? How far will you go with your food?

 All of these things make up a persona. How far are you willing to go to be accurate. Because the fact of the matter is, with all the photographs and original clothing items and accoutrements that still exist today in museums and in beautifully photographed books of firearms and gun leather and etc. it is, in my humble opinion, pretty hard to mess it up too badly.

 So how far is one willing to take their research and put it to use?

 When I was putting together my impression or "persona" I wanted to be very specific. I didn't want to lump all the periods of the old west into one big pot and pick what I liked. I wanted to nail down a date and limit myself to the clothing, accoutrements and gear I could document to that date and just before.
 
 So I picked 1876. You won't see me carrying around a 1897 Winchester shotgun, or a 93 Winchester. I've limited myself to firearms manufactured before 1876.

 I spent time looking at dozens of 1870s photographs to try and pick up on subtleties in their clothing etc.

 We all want to be safe and not get hurt or contract a serious illness. Yes, some of us may have died young had we really lived back  then. But that's not really what makes you hardcore or not. It starts with the clothing and the gear. Yes, dare I say, counting stitches (not literally, but figuratively).

 One thing that can really up a persons game is food. There are TONS of period correct options for food that don't involve lugging a cooler full of ice around and then you don't have to worry about covering anything with a blanket or a tarp. It can all be out in the open for all to see!

 
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« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2017, 03:55:55 am »

Jake,
check out The Originals category. There are quite a few NCOWS folks who have stepped up to that level. Everything from firearms to clothing to camp gear documented to the year and occupation chosen for their impression.




RCJ
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« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2017, 03:56:48 am »

Thanks! I'll check that out!
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« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2017, 02:53:28 pm »

Sounds like we've established that nobody wants to contract a deadly disease of the period etc. But I don't think this really gets at the heart of what "going far" with your persona is really all about.

 Let's restate the question a little.

 How far will you go with your Clothing? How far will you go with your choice of camp equipment? How far will you go with your firearms? How far will you go with your food?

 All of these things make up a persona. How far are you willing to go to be accurate. Because the fact of the matter is, with all the photographs and original clothing items and accoutrements that still exist today in museums and in beautifully photographed books of firearms and gun leather and etc. it is, in my humble opinion, pretty hard to mess it up too badly.

 So how far is one willing to take their research and put it to use?

 When I was putting together my impression or "persona" I wanted to be very specific. I didn't want to lump all the periods of the old west into one big pot and pick what I liked. I wanted to nail down a date and limit myself to the clothing, accoutrements and gear I could document to that date and just before.
 
 So I picked 1876. You won't see me carrying around a 1897 Winchester shotgun, or a 93 Winchester. I've limited myself to firearms manufactured before 1876.


Ah, well, if you are putting it that way....


I myself picked ~ 1870 - 1875.
 - percussion colt and remington revolvers fit.
 - model 1866 yellowboy lever action fits.
 - cartridge conversion for the remingtons fit

a "preferred" historically correct shotgun would be a percussion or an underlever and/or pinfire.
My damascsus rabbit-ear double just barely makes it. The posse would object to me using my percussion double, but I can
bring it for correctness, and swap out to the cartridge shotgun for actual shooting.

I try to leave as much "modern" as I can at the parking lot.

I don't use a "shooting cart" but I am building a correct "Peddlars cart" to display my Snake oil merchant stuff
and will have the guns in a locking drawer. I am also making cardboard cartidge boxes with correct labels, courtesy
of the great guys on CAS City!

clothing correct up to 1865 is easy enough for me to find, document, and can be worn regularly to "take off the new"

I carry a pocket watch correct to the period (even if it is broke!), a correct barlow pocket knife, and "pocket stuff" ,
and carry a few correctly dated coins, and wear correct antique wire rim glasses I found at a junk shop, to which I added prescription safety lenses.

I can't do anything about my tooth fillings, ( see rules above).
I have not yet particiapated in a costume contest, so If anyone objects to my well hidden car keys and well hidden modern wallet, they can take a long walk off a short dock.

I haven't camped in years, but if I do in the future I will bring and set up my One Pole Pyramid Tent ( period correct and oft' used by Buff Hunters and plainsmen) to set up,whilst possibly sleeping in a camper in the "tin tipi zone"  .
ie- leaving modernisch stuff in the parking lot.

Visible food would be limited to carried hardtack/biscuits or paper-wrapped sandwiches, a Glass water bottle, tinware for eating, etc.

Cooler & etc would be in the "tin tipi camp". Long ago I built a "sooper cooler" - I took a regular "igloo" and put it in a wooden chest sized to fit THREE INCHES of rigid blue housebuilding foam all around, including the top. Since it is your wooden Food and Staples
box, there is No need for a canavs cover. By using a plastic igloo cooler inside you have a modernisch easily cleaned and sanitary food storage unit. With an ice block, This unit kept  food in it cold & fresh for over a week once in 100 deg heat. The ice block was still half intact.

For portable mass Hydration, you can STILL get the Canvas Desert Water Bags which can be regularly sterilized with clorox or peroxide, your choice, and will slowly leak ( sweat) water thru the fabric providing natural cooling to the water. Ice can be added to the water inside the bag, and WAS available via ice houses and thus does not violate any sensibilities. At one point I did the research on These Desert Water bags and I seem to recall I found them in use long before 1850, but I will have to dig up the doco.
 
So, with a little effort, it can be done safely and readily, and only depends on the amount of effort one wishes to expend.

As always, there are extremes on boths ends -
  -  the ones who claim " they woulda used it if they had it"
  vs
  -  the "Mark Baker's " who wore the same clothes for weeks without washing to replicate "The Long Hunters" of ~1760 ...

It is the "Mark Baker" types that push the envelope of safety, to which I object.  He used to go on week-long treks with only pre 1790 gear, and no means of emergency contact ( I like my wife better than to do that to her) .  He also does not wear safety glasses.

yhs
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« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2017, 11:26:47 pm »

 Thanks for those thoughts Professor Marvel. It really is all about the effort. And I agree, everyone has their stopping point.

 Looking at your list of things you do and don't do, I would whole heartedly agree, however I would have to take that next step even beyond hiding a form of cooler inside a wooden box. I would just forgo any food stuffs that need to stay refrigerated which again, with a little effort can be easily done. The reason being is that, even though everyone else would see a wooden box, I'd still have to open it and look inside only to see foam and plastic and that would take me out of the period moment.

 
Quote
It is the "Mark Baker" types that push the envelope of safety, to which I object.  He used to go on week-long treks with only pre 1790 gear, and no means of emergency contact ( I like my wife better than to do that to her) .  He also does not wear safety glasses.

 I have always found it necessary to experience this level of "hardcore" or what have you at least once in the reenacting hobby. I've been on several of these, where if someone got seriously hurt etc. it would be a couple mile hike anyway before help could be gotten or cell phone service worked again. I and others involved just simply knew that going in and were okay with it. We knew the risks and we excepted them simply for the experience, and my what an experience those times have been.

 One such event was a Civil War full immersion event where about 200 of us (100 Federals, 100 Confederates) fought it out in a giant wilderness area in Tennessee. It was closed to the public. We arrived, filled our canteens, were issued rations, beaded down on our packs with nothing but a gum blanket underneath of us, got up to the sound of the fife, drum and bugle at 4:30AM, were in full marching order by 5:30AM, marched 5 miles into the middle of this wilderness area and set up our picket lines and commenced to wait on the confederates to show themselves. None of us had cell phones, save an officer for safety concerns but it didn't matter anyway because he didn't get service. There were copperheads in those woods, so you had to be careful. Ticks were abundant and my feet were wet the entire time but I had the time of my life! I will never forget it.
 

All of that said though, most of your experiences in the hobby are going to be at a nice location for a camp and shoot. One shouldn't have any trouble surviving a weekend without some modern amenities as you described while also not having to kill themselves by trying to be "hardcore" in action. If you don't want to be hardcore in action, at least be hardcore in your presentation. I will forever endorse becoming a stitch counter!  Grin
 

 
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2017, 01:39:27 am »

Greetings Jake -

you make yet another valid point regarding foodstuffs - one can take frsh or canned food (re-labled) and still be period, keeping them in an 1800's  "cook box" with shade, a cooling cloth ( ie - home-made swamp cooler for the food) and bug protection ( we *know* where those flies have been!)

regarding going harcore ...  everybody ought to consider doing it a few times while their young and indestructible! I did a few times...
before cell phones....

May I submit that having a few other participants to rely on (some of whom are usually trained EMT's) is a much better bet than going alone with your dog into deep wilderness on a 50-100 mile "long trek" like Baker used to do :-)

yhs
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