Cheap Sharps Club

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Yellowhouse and Ranch, thank you VERY much for your suggestions. I have actually tried MOST of your suggestions.  Never used Scheutzen or NOT crimped, but everything else.

At one time or another I have tried:

Bullet hardness from pure to approx. 20-1, numerous hardness levels, ALL softer than my original Meisters

Goex 2F; 3F; Cartridge; Pyrodex; KIK

Sized @ .458", .459", & .460"

Different lubes including the yellow Bore Butter (but no SPG  ... yet)

No paper-patch or chamber cast - I'll give that a try soon as I can get some CerroSafe, but I have slugged the barrel and got .4585", so .459" or .460 OUGHT to be OK, right?

ALL charges are dropped, then compressed about .125" to .1925" (with a compression die, NOT with the projectile)

Never tried the neck-tension trick ... yet.  I DO size ONLY the "neck"  & "orient" the loaded round the same each time.

I blow tube different times:  #1 after every shot, #2 every 3rd shot, #3 blow every other shot then wipe @ 10, #4 wipe after EVERY shot, ...

I've never found Fed primers, but have used:  CCI LRP, CCI Mag LRMP, Win LRP ... haven't tried any LPPs yet, Mag or normal ... yet

I didn't want to list EVERYTHING I've tried, but your VERY helpful hints prompted me to try.

As I see it, my WORST issue is that I have NO place to do a proper trial,  I admit to having changed 2 or three details on the same bullet, so if something actually benefitted, I wouldn't know WHAT made a change for the better.  To do it right would take CONSIDERABLE time and I simply don't have the time, place, money or other:  I'm sorry to say that I'm looking for a "quick fix" ... but, as Yellowhammer stated (SO wisely), "Too many variables involved to nail down just one."

Thanks, Pards

and ... I haven't given up TOTALLY, just mostly, but I'm willing to slug anong before selling my 45-70 fencepost.  

PS - I did forget to mention, I have only used Win cases, no others due to the ca$h required; also, I have changed the front sight from factory (a blade) to a Lyman tunnel, back to original.  Also, my rear sight is a Lee Shaver Soule mid-range version.  (Wish I'd have gotten the tallest one!)


And I STILL think it's the coolest rifle I own!!

[Ranch 13]

Bore butter isn't much of a bullet lube,works good for lots of other things but.....
It's amazing what a good lube will do for tight groups, and just because a lube works ok in one rifle doesn't mean the next one will get along with it at all.
 I might have missed the bullet weights, but something in the 500 gr give or take 20-30 grs is what's going to work the best in that 18 inch twist. Also seating to the lands can be counter productive with bpcr, so best to start out seatig the bullet to the driving band.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Bore butter isn't much of a bullet lube,works good for lots of other things but.....
It's amazing what a good lube will do for tight groups, and just because a lube works ok in one rifle doesn't mean the next one will get along with it at all.
 I might have missed the bullet weights, but something in the 500 gr give or take 20-30 grs is what's going to work the best in that 18 inch twist. Also seating to the lands can be counter productive with bpcr, so best to start out seatig the bullet to the driving band.

Ranch - thanks!

I forgot to mention about bullet weight.  I started with the 405s.  Then I found some 500 gr Lymans; since then I've settled on the 535 grs Postell from Montana Precision Swaging.  Of all the things I've tried, changing to the 535 projectile has done more to improve my performance than all the others combined!  I've even tried my hand at casting using the same (or nearly) Lyman Mould #457535 as what Montana makes for theirs (yes, I assume theirs are swaged, but one of their swaged bullets fits perfectly into my mould.)  I haven't shot any of my home-cast due to troubles with casting - I have cast 5000 or so of the 250 gr PRS BigLube boolits with great success, but no luck on the big ones, so I just continue to buy the ones  that seem to work best.

Yes, I plan to try better lube:  MOSTLY I've used my 70-30 mix of olive oil & beeswax (I like authentic, olde tyme recipes, where possible)  but I'll get some others to try.  The Montana PS bullets AND the original Meisters I tried all come pre-lubed with SPG.

I've also tried seating the projectile to different lengths.

Thanks again.

[Capt. Jack McQuesten]

Here are some pics of my IAB Sharps with the wagon box and the new web ammo belt:

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Arabela Kid, that friend sure squared you away!  That's an awesome box!  I want one - where did it come from?  I have a pic of a real Sharps -used to hunt Buff, back in the day.  Yours says Sharps on the side, but they are somewhat similar.

Feel free to look at any other pics in my album ...

CLICK ON PIC TO ENLARGE

[Capt. Jack McQuesten]

Howdy Steel Horse!

Yeah, my buddy really took care of me with my Sharps.... !!!!!

I am not sure where he got the wooden Sharps case though.....I did find one similar (But not as fancy) from IAB:

http://www.iabarms.com/wood-box.htm

PS:

I checked out your pics and they are great....thanks for sharing.... !!!!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, Kid!

[buckskin billy]

howdy yall,
  i reckon i should be considered for membership here.
 i got two iab sharps.
 the 45-70 i got in a trade the first of this year. money been tight and i aint got every thing i need to reload for it yet but i will be hunting with this year.



the second sharps is a .54 caliber paper cutter. i have had it for years. a guy had it at a gunshow  marked  it for 250 bucks. i was shocked at the price and asked. " you want  250 bucks for, that?!" the guy looked at me funny and said ok i'll take 200. i would have gladly given the 250 for it. any hows i have named it my fire breathing dragon as it blows fire out every where. it has caught a loading table on fire and started a couple of grass fires in the pass



 has iab gone out of business i can not get there web site pulled up. i need a new set srew and set trigger for the 45-70 and vti prices are outragous
 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

B.Billy, that's a great price on the Fire Breathin' Dragon - $200!  Awesome!

Keep slugging along and good luck with your 45-70.

I don't know about I.A.B.:  They are an importer, not a manufacturer, if I've heard right, and their guns were made by the Eye-tralian firm of Pedretti, if I'm not mistaken, and I think they're definitely still in business.  I've only used VTI a few times, and they've been for Pietta or Uberti parts.  Their prices are waaaay better than some others for the same guns ... can't say about the other mfgrs.

Have fun ... whether shootin' fer bulls & fun, huntin' fer grub, ... er settin' tables or grass on fire at the range!
 

And Welcome! to the Club!

[Bob R.]

I guess I don't really qualify. I just ordered my Pedersoli Sharps, at $1150 - which is cheap compared to some Sharps, and some Pedersoli's. A .45-70 business rifle.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Bob R., while that Pedersoli price isn't what I had in mind when I started this "Cheapo Sharps" club, it certainly is a fine gun and as long as the dollar keeps dropping in value compared to the Euro, it won't be long until that IS a cheap price - just not a cheap gun!

[Montana Slim]

I paid $700 for my Pedersoli Sharps (Cabelas) new..but, that was almost 12 years ago.
The Pedersoli was looked-down by some of the shooters then, but is well-made & accurate...giving the others a sound run-for-the-money....Time will tell with the Pedretti & Sons.

Regards,
Slim
(whom is likely kin the Pedretti gunmaking family)

[The Pathfinder]

In some ways I know I qualify, in others I don't know if'n I'm welcome. I have 4 big bore guns and all fall under the $1000 mark, tho' the lever was right at $1000. First is my 1874 Sharps 45-70 that ran me $800, a steal for a (whisper mode on) Shilo. Second is my 45-70 Conn Peabody that I stole for $550. Next is my 1873 Trapdoor Springfield I found for $300. Last is a 45-70 1886 Winchester made in 1886 that someone lopped an inch off the end of the barrel for $1000. Make no mistake, I'm Scootish ancestry (read skinflint) but deals are still out there. I started with an 1859 Sharps I got from Dixie for $500 that was marked Uberti, but it was stolen. So do I qualify for the cheap Sharps club?

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings Happy Virtual Campers

The website of the apparently defunct I.A.B. Arms

www.iabarms.com

shows that I.A.B. Arms was not an importer, but rather another of the many Italian gunmakers in the Valtrompia Valley in Italy, located at
Via Matteotti, 311
25063 GARDONE V.T. (Bs) Italy

The principles were Adriano, Mauro and Fabio Pedretti, thus the assumption that IAB's "were made by Pedretti". There is still a lot of confusion, the EMF Pedretti Sharp's I have seen differ visually from the IAB Sharps I have handled, and are different from the IAB Sharps 1863 papercutter .54 that I own. 

We find on Tradenames and Brands of Guns and Gunsmakers that they are listed as two separate entities
http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/brand_f.htm

F. Pedretti                     IT     Brescia, Italy
I. A. B. (Industria Armi Bresciane)     IT     Marcheno, Italy

We see from the wayback machine that the IAB website went belly-up sometime after May 2008.

Since my skills in the Italian language are non-existant, I am sorry to relate thatmy net-fu is useless in trying to find any information on this Italian corp.

The best I can offer is

1) the IAB website is gone since about June 2008

2) it appears that in April 2009 a "Adriano Pedretti" chaired a company called Naturaenergia to build a biomass (wood!) power plant and district heating network in Gardone.

3) AN F. Pedretti is the current sole proprietor of Armi Pedretti
Armi PEDRETTI
VIA PASCOLI GIOVANNI 152
GARDONE VAL TROMPIA (BS) 25063

http://web.archive.org/web/20080606235037/www.iabarms.com

your confused servant
prof marvel

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Interesting. 

Thanks for the info, Per-fessor!

Pathfinder, You got some great deals and bargains.  Congrats!  And welcome to the Club. 

Mon-tanny Slim, I remember back when Pedersolis WERE considered "Cheapos," and they were much maligned by the "serious experts" of BPCR shooting.  This is a perfect example of WHY this thread/club came about:  the "experts" wouldn't consider one of these guns, but we few bought them and found that even 'tho they said these guns were "cheapos" they COULD shoot well, were made well, and were great fun, and didn't have to cost thou$and$ of dollar$ to perform well.  It's a lot more important  to practice- practice- practice, have good techniques, and be a top shooter than to buy the hardware co$ting big buck$. 

It's the SHOOTER, not the gun who wins.  (YMMV - and yes, I DO unner-stand that a great gun in the hands of a great shooter will probably win over a great shooter with a crappy gun!  Too many crappy shooters think that a great gun is the answer.  Nope.)
 


Y'all keep yer powder dry!

[Bob R.]

Well, I tried for the cheap sharps club, when I ended up doing was getting the best new manufacture gun I could afford for the best price I could find through the local shop I have the best relationship with. I had tried local gunshows, but to no avail.

It was still $700 - $800 cheaper than a comparable Shilo or C.Sharps.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Happy hunting, Bob R!

[Hangtown Frye]

One of my best shooting rifles is an old IAB caplock Sharps that I got back in (I think it was) 1978 or '79, for all of $158 through Shotgun News.  It's marked ".54 Caliber" but it's not, it's actually in the old Sharps .52", so when you shoot it with .54's it squeezes them down, and is accurate as (and kicks like) all get-out.  It also has a 90-grain chamber, as opposed to the usual 60-grain chamber as found in the Shiloh caplock Sharps, so that just adds to the fun.  It too is a "Fire-breathing Dragon", as it spits flame out of every orifice, but what the heck, it just teaches you to wear leather sleeves and push the brim of your hat up, like the old timers in the Frederick Remington paintings.  Must have been SOME reason for doing that, eh?   

Anyway, it was cheaper than dirt (I could afford it while being a newly-married, starving college student), and has served me well for over 30 years now.  Funny how sometimes the cheap stuff sticks with you, while the more expensive toys can get traded or sold off for one reason or another. But I love that old rifle, as it just plain shoots.

Cheers!

Gordon

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hmmph,

Shows how much I know ....

I always thought  that 'cheap Sharps' was an oxymoron, like 'military intelligence' or some such ....

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Hmmph,

Shows how much I know ....

I always thought  that 'cheap Sharps' was an oxymoron, like 'military intelligence' or some such ....

 

[Otter]

Hmmph,

Shows how much I know ....

I always thought  that 'cheap Sharps' was an oxymoron, like 'military intelligence' or some such ....

Just in case you ain't been keepin' track, there ain't no such thing as a "cheap" Sharps anymore . . .

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Otter,  money-wise, you're probably right.  However, when this was founded (by me) the whole purpose was to show that just because a Sharps replica didn't cost as much as a C.Sharps or a Shiloh, those of us more budget minded could still have fun with the "cheaper" versions that were on the market at the time; the ones that the "experts" sneered at and proclaimed (sometimes pretty loudly) weren't worth the powder it would take to blow them up.  Time has proven me right.  NO ... my Taylor's Armi Sport version (at least in MY hands) won't win any Quigley matches, but I've had every penny's worth of fun that is possible with it!  And that is priceless!

[Otter]

Steeley,

Hope you didn't think I was in any manner deriding any Sharps. Even at six or seven hundred dollars, they aren't "cheap" any more, moneywise. When I first started shooting BPCR rifles, a Shiloh could be had in the $700 range, Pedersolis were few and far between and were in the $400-$500 range. One of my good friends shot a Pedersoli and could ring the 600 yard steel probably 99% of the time. By the time I got my Sharps (yes, it is a Shiloh), they were substantially more than $700. I had tried for over a year to find a Pedersoli to no avail. While I waited for my Shiloh, I built a Roller from an old rebuilt action. They are all fun to shoot. If I can find a "cheap" Sharps at the right price, and me in the right mood, I will have another in the herd.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Otter, no problem.  I wasn't even in the ballpark when you were getting Shilohs for $700.   WoW!

When I got my A.S. for $700, it was $300-$450 less than the Pedersolis, and a thousand (and then some) under a C.Sharps or Shiloh - but I've gotten Thou$and$ of Dollar$ in fun from it.

Fun is around even at bargain prices!

[Drayton Calhoun]

If Kevin Costner can drop a Buff with a Henry...aw, never mind, I couldn't come up with anything funnier than that scene in the movie... That does remind me though. There a book called "Long Ride Home" by Michael Gear has a part in it about an old feller decides to be a buff hunter so buys a Henry and a couple of boxes of rounds thinking how he'll use one round per buff and is calculating how much money he's going to make from his hunt...he gets educated real fast about how tough buff are.