An opportunity?

[Big Hext Finnigan]

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Howdy,

Not trying to gore anyone's ox here..
The software and picture capabilities of this board create an exposition of the NCOWS look and gear.

For those of us who are far away and not likely to get to an NCOWS event anytime soon, it's a window.

If O. T. and other experts in the arena would provide examples AND even kind criticisms, a newbie could cut down on embarassment, investments in mistakes and issues that might arise.

I may post a pic or two of my ugly mug, for *ahem* criticism.. 

Adios,

[Paper Chaser]

Now, Big Hext, we've seen your "mug"; how about some really "pretty pictures" ?(LOL)

[Qball]

Now that is an exelent idea. More pictures for referens for
us newbie

[Big Hext Finnigan]

All right.. not a posed thing... but Hamp was at the last shoot and was kind enough to risk his camera and take a shot of me and then emailed it to me.

Resistol hat
Wah shirt and vest
Tombstone Outfitters pants
San Pedro leather and spur straps
Tony Lama shooters boots

Except for the semi-fantasy hat.. a pretty solid "period" look, or so I would say.

[California Lawdawg]

Might fine looken cowboy there Big Hext.


Lawdawg

[Texas Lawdog]

Hext, You pass muster for your"period"outfit.  The hat is a little too clean. It need some "character".

[Wymore Wrangler]

Hext, your hat is like most that are worn at NCOWS events that I've attended...

[Will Ketchum]

Hext looks pretty good....except for that shot shell slide   It appears to be an exact reproduction of a piece of equipment that never existed 

Will Ketchum

[Big Hext Finnigan]

That's true.. but since I was shooting a game that is a reproduction of shooting events that never existed, I figure it's ok..

[Wymore Wrangler]

I agree with you on this one also Big Hext....

[Will Ketchum]

But since this is a NCOWS forum I thought it would be appropriate to point out the part of your outfit that wasn't correct since you made the point about being a "period" look

Wy, you might agree with Hext but it won't be long before the slide will be gone in NCOWS events if I had to hazard a guess.

Many want to recapture the whole reason for NCOWS existence and that is authenticity   The other group is or those who don't care about history and want to just play at a fantasy.

Will Ketchum

[Wymore Wrangler]

Will, I would disagree with you that slides are going to be gone, I've spoken with people from more than a few clubs that would vote for their continued use, the only way it's going to be settled is for the Congress to vote on it....

[Will Ketchum]

We intend to

Will Ketchum

[Paper Chaser]

When the shotgun slides are gone let us all hope the price of shotgun belts won't sky rocket!

[Will Ketchum]

PC, NCOWS is such a small market I doubt it will have any impact.

I have never understood NCOWS members who are suppose to want to do things as authentic as possible resisting getting rid of the slides.

At the last congress we okayed cross bolt safeties because of legal ramifications.  No one has ever been able to provide a picture of a slide being used.  Authenticity is the biggest issue that separates NCOWS from SASS.

[Paper Chaser]

Will, I'm now "almost" all authentic, except for the shotshell slide.  But I'm working on it.

[Wymore Wrangler]

Well if you get rid of slides, you ought to outlaw shotgun belts also, I've never seen a photograph with a cowboy wearing a gunbelt and a shotgun belt, it wasn't done, so if we really want to adhere to authenticity, you would have to load only from a pocket or pouch...  And then you would only have working cowboy class.....

[Will Ketchum]

Gee Wy, I thought you had a copy of "Packing Iron"?   On page 172 there is a picture of John Slaughter wearing both a Mills shot shell belt and a gunbelt with a SAA in a cross draw Mexican loop holster.
On page 173 you will find a picture of Teddy Roosevelt wearing a Mexican loop holster suspended on a Mills belt .

I know you have the Montgomery Wards and Sears & Roebuck catalogs.  Both show Mills type belts and leather shell belts.  It is reasonable to assume that since both cartridge and shell belts were available they were worn together.

You refer to "cowboys" in your post.  Everyone on the Western Frontier wasn't a cowboy.  The Mills belt wasorginally developed for the Army I believe.  I doubt if a soldier going out on the prarie  to hunt would leave his pistol belt behind.  A lawman on the trail of an outlaw who wore a shotshell belt would also wear his pistol belt, or at least could have.   They couldn't have wore a shot shell slide because there just weren't any

Yours is a lost cause I believe unless someone can provide documentation of the slides.

Will Ketchum

[Wymore Wrangler]

Will, were not talking staged photographs here, and to use Glen Carmen's logic, there weren't any pregnant women in the Old West because he can only find only two examples on the thousands that he has examined...  If somebody was going hunting and still thought they needed the pistol, they just hung the pistol on the shotgun belt, the average frontiersman didn't walk around  packing two pistols, a lever action rifle, a shotgun, and a buffalo rifle to do their daily business...  So were playing a fanatasy game, I find the second belt around my waist EXTREMELY uncomfortable, not authentic in anyway shape or form, and if we are away from the firing line, I wouldn't wear my slides for photographs, but at the firing lines, I'm going to continue to shoot comfortably, less likely to drop a gun that way, and will always be the dissenting voice on this item....

[Will Ketchum]

Wy, I don't think you will find the photos posed that I referred to.
We all know why we don't find very many pictures of pregnant woman, although I have at least one.  In the Victorian era it wasn't seemly for a woman to appear in public when obviously pregnant.

In your heart you know if slides would have been "common" that we would have pictures of them and Sears would have sold them in their catalog.

I would be a lot more comfortable in shorts and sneakers when the temps are in the 90s.  That doesn't mean I can wear them.


Some just don't get the NCOWS idea

Like you said before it will be up to the congress to vote on.

[Texas Lawdog]

I am a modern day Lawman who carries approx. 50 rounds of 9mm ammo in my weapon and the two extra magazines I carry on my belt.  I have a canvas shotgun belt for my shotgun and extra mags for my Mini14.  If there is a possibility of an armed confrontation, I want all the ammo I can carry.  I would have done the same, If I had been a lawman in the 19th Century.

[Will Ketchum]

Well said Lawdog!

Will Ketchum

[Dutch Limbach]

Well if you get rid of slides, you ought to outlaw shotgun belts also, I've never seen a photograph with a cowboy wearing a gunbelt and a shotgun belt, it wasn't done, so if we really want to adhere to authenticity, you would have to load only from a pocket or pouch...  And then you would only have working cowboy class.....

Wymore there is a post in the Cas City Historical Society section called, "The meanest good guy who ever lived". The indiviual in question is John Horton Slaughter, and there is a picture of him wearing a shotshell belt above his gunbelt.  There is also a link to a web site that has an article on the man, http://www.desertusa.com/mag00/jun/papr/slath.html.

[St. George]

Once again, we prove the old Staff Officer's adage:
"There is no horse so dead that you cannot continue to beat it".

I'll weigh in here, though I'll have a bit more in the "Historical Society" Forum on Mills Belts, the buckles and fakes at a later time.

There were no shotgun slides - period - unless you find a bunkhouse-made one, and that certainly wasn't something you'd be able to order from the "Wish Book" as you sat out in the outhouse, or around the campfire.

There was, however, a shotgun pouch issued for the 20-guage Trapdoor Forager's Shotgun.

Web belts were developed for the British Army - who were looking to upgrade their field equipment for varying climates.

The web belt was perfect for arid conditions of the Southwest as they didn't dry and crack like leather.
Later, as military equipment evolved, they found that web material was as strong - if not stronger - and took less time to maintain.

On the other hand - those military Mills belts were for rifle and pistol cartridges.

The shotgun belt was for hunters.
The photos seen usually are of hunters.
Men hunted more at the turn of the century, when Indian arrows weren't the nuisance that they once were.

They found favor with lawmen - for the reasons that were stated.

Did soldiers use them?
Doubtful, since they already had a pouch for use and there was no need to spend money on something more.
An Officer may have, since he had the time to hunt and may have owned a shotgun or two.

Hope this helps...

I look at NCOWS as an "immersion" in the time period and not as a "cafeteria-style - whatever looks good" B-Movie event that you see on OLN or at a SASS shoot.

The references are there - buy them, read and familiarize yourself with what was available and go on from there.
Drawing any sort of "historical accuracy" from a movie, a paperback or from a fantasy will only lead to wasted money.

The argument - "If they coulda - they woulda" doesn't hold water - they couldn't - so they didn't.
That goes also for coil springs, investment castings and aluminum parts and guns that never existed.

Fidelity to detail isn't hard at all, and in fact, the digging for  and unearthing those details is what makes the whole NCOWS organization unique.

"People from the Congress" who will vote on something - if there's truth to that statement - are going to vote for a fantasy item - and then, where's their credibility?
Maybe they're the ones that provide the slides...




Scouts Out!

[Will Ketchum]

St. George, my feeling exactly

Will Ketchum