How do you design your holters, pic added in my last post to help what I ment

[Ace Lungger]

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This question is for all levels of leatherworkers!
I know that some of you pro's get out the Packing Iron book, spot a holster that you like or it strikes your fancy wheter you are making it for your self or for a customer, you just sit down and look and do!
 My handy cap is I havn't learned to crave so that limits me to usesing stamps to make my holsters!
 My question to those that have not carved or carved much you are like me, you have to use your stamps creasers, groovers, ect, do you just start on a piece of leather and Just do it!
 i don't do it that way, and it might be because of my lack of artistisc ability, so what i do, (and I want to know if I am the only one that does this) I draw out my pattern and cut it to fit! Then I scan and make me some outline copies, then I lay out my design! So, i have all my stamps scanned into my computer, and then i start getting my ideas, i printout the stamp at it's actucal size then i cut and paste on my holster template. If i don't like it i just keep changing it untill I get it they way I want it to look.
 So i quess I am asking do you see it in your head allready done and start doing it, or do you kinda do it the way I do it?
 I am just trying to understand how most of you pards do things, i know that if you have artistic abilities it has to be a plus in any thing you go to do. Most diffenetly when you care!! It like the guy on pbs that paints he makes it look so easy and all his stuff turns out so good!

 If you have any comments or ideas, or how you do it, it might make it better or easier for me and others!1
that is what is so great about this site, everyone is willing to share there idea's and thoughts that might help someone else.

 I hope that everyone that gets a long weekend , is safe and enjoys it's.

ACE

[Mogorilla]

I make a pattern, if I like it, I make it on poster board, if I really like it I put it on masonite.  I like a firm pattern (posterboard/masonite) for laying it out, no chance of a bend in the paper to mess up your tracing.  Plus, if just flip it for a strong side or cross draw, depending on what you need.  I have a slim jim and an early mexican holster in masonite, nice permanent pattern that allows for excellent layouts on flat leather.  I hope this gives you a hint or two.

p.s., if you have peg board, you can hang the masonite patterns with just a drilled hole,

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I usually make patterns on manilla folders or poster board. I seldom make two holsters exactly the same so I'm continuously modifying them. To make changes, I trace the pattern on another sheet and draw the changes before cuttiing it out. For holsters, I put the centerline of the holster on the fold of the manilla folder. Then I cut out the main part with it folded over so front and back fit exactly. The top curve and skirt areas get cut out when it's flat because they are different. I often have to tape a skirt on since a folder isn't large enough to accomodate the whole thing. Then I transfer that to poster board. There are a few I use many times, but if the pattern gets worn, I just make a new one. I do have a few that I'll transfer to something else some day, but I haven't figured out what that something else is yet. Maybe thin nylon stencil material. We'll see about that.

[santee]

Man, I bet I went through half a ream of paper for my first ones. Cut and tape, that was the name of the game.

[Ace Lungger]

I am sorry guys!! I didn't word the first post the way I entended it to !!
 I have the template of holster makingdown decent, because of the years I did wood working. What I am asking is the design pattern of borders, stamps, carving (which I have not learned) i had put that in the first post, but i didn't go a head and explain.
What I am asking::Lets say I have found the style of holster that I want to make, most likely something out of Packing Iron so I make my patern, thenI lay my pattern folded in half with the outside of my holster pattern  laying flat on my scanner  bed, then I scan it in with adobe photo shop, after scanning, I print off a couple of 3 or so, and start drawing out my design's borders ect. Siince I have scanned in my stamps that I have, to there proper size, then I print out what ever stamp pictures I think I my want to use on my holster! I might have to reprint and reprint, untill I have the right stamps to use.
 So the Question was to you Pards is, do you see the design look (borders stamps carving ect) in your head and then start doing the work on your cased leather, or do you have to do what I do, or draw it on the patern?
  I know you Pro's that can carve most likely see a holster and already have a idea how you want to carve it and border it, but I am asking those that cannot free hand carve, how do you make up your mind as to what you put on the holster?

Sorry I didn't do a good job the first post.
ACE

[Dalton Masterson]

AAAH, I see what you are getting at Ace.
I usually take a scrap piece of leather, and make the actual design on that. Borders dont seem to matter much as far as one being "wrong", but its still good to see what you are thinking.
If I make a rosette, or if I am putting a name or something, I wll also put that on scrap so I can lay it down and get spacing right, or see if the rosette is in the right spot.
Other than that, I just wing it and make it work.
Yours is a great idea tho. Too bad you couldnt just use a draw program to copy and paste them right on the screen! DM

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Dalton has it right, there. Try it out on a scrap first. On border designs I want to use in the future, I usually save a sample of it for future reference if the item won't be around after I make it. Black tends to hide details and the pattern can get lost in itself if it's too detailed or complex. Simple designs work better with black where more decorative ones can hold their own on brown or lighter colors.

[Ace Lungger]

Know we are getting somwhere :)DM, I wished I had a draw program, but since I can't draw it wouldn't do me any good HA HA
DM and MW, I like the scrap leather ides, but it is much easier and (cheaper) do it on paper! Because I format my holster on my computer and print it out, even if it is to big to print on standard paper i just cut it and print in to pieces and tape toghter!
Yes the scrap leather would be less trouble.
 But that is what I wanted to know, if if you guys wing it or draw it out befor you do it?
Thanks for the replys!!
ACE

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Ace

        Well Ace i guess i'm lucky that way, i usually picture things in my mine, and then go at it, unless i see something new i might want to consider , then i might try it out on scrap first.


                                                               tEN wOLVES 

[Ace Lungger]

TW and the rest of the gang, if you have that ability to just grab a piece of leather and make a awesome holters Like I have seen you guys do, I envy you, because I can see a style, but because I cannot carve i have to lay it out to see what stamps go with the style and the period to fit the holster!

Thanks so much for the reply from you all.
ACE

[outrider]

Ace,

I don't know about the other pards but it took me years before I got to where I am now.  It sometimes comes down to trial and error...if you knew how many holsters are sitting in the dump because I did something wrong or made a mistake....an example of the time that is sometimes required.  the holster I did with the inlaid rattlesnake..I ran that design through my mind for almost 4 months before I attempted to make it.  I ran through the assembly so many times that when I finally did make it it took me exactly 6 hours from the time I first started cutting leather.

I best thing to do as the rest of the pards have already indicated....take your time...do it on paper first...get the design fine tuned...then go for the construction.  Work on each aspect of the design/construction sequence until you have mastered each one...it takes time...I am still learning after all these years of doing this...I have learned alot in this forum..thanks to all the pards.

[Ace Lungger]

Outrider, i thank you so much for repluing and for telling me how much thinking you did to get were you are??
That means a lot to me And then the amount of time to so the carving  that help, I been working all day today and most the day yesterdat getting my pattern just right for this pompell stle double crossdraw, I am in no hurry know that I have got my feet good and wet, I want to make this holster a holster that anyone would be pround to wear, still looking for my napkin rings, got out bit on the set I wanted, they have lite lilly scrolling on  them and the holster is going to a have a lilly flare to it, o well I will fing a pair.
Thanks
ace

[Marshal Will Wingam]

When I was starting out with tooling, I always had a picture of something similar to what I was doing so I'd know which stamps did what while I was working. You're on the right track. Many books on tooling show which stamps work for a particular design and whatever you do is always similar to something illustrated. so you move a leaf here and a flower there, the design is still done the same way in the same order. Don't worry about knowing all about it right away. That comes with time and lots of repetition. Meanwhile, whatever it takes to keep your work going the way you want is the right way to do it.

LOL, I hope some of my long sentences that try to say a lot without stopping to start another sentence don't sound too confusing because they can sure get long-winded and tend to be hard to understand, especially when you're trying to make sense out of them by seeing all the concepts contained within without getting lost or giving up on the whole translation and starting to look for a better way to get the ideas rather than drive yourself nuts with them.

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,

For most of my holsters I use a simple border, applied to the cased (wet) leather with an overstitch wheel with a chainlink roller in the handle instead of the overstich "star".  I mark the pattern (matboard) where I want the border and then cut out the inside.  I place the pattern on the leather and mark the outline of the holster and the line where I want the border using a red ballpoint pen.  After cutting the holster out, I wet the leather and then roll the wheel around the red ink line.  If I apply any other stampings it is then done around the inside and outside of the rolled border.  A rosette or two is then stamped inside the arches of the harp-shaped pattern.

Most of my carving, when it is requested, is of the "insized" type.  Usually I freelance this, mostly floral patterns.  I use drafting mylar and blue plastic pencil leads in a draftsman's pencil.  First, I draw the outline of the holster area on the mylar, and then draw the pattern inside the outline of the holster.  I then take the mylar, place it over the dampened leather, and trace over the blue lines with a red plastic lead, or just a ballpoint pen.  This transfers the floral patterns to the leather.  By using a different color lead or the pen, I can see where I have traced the pattern and where I have not.  Once that is done, I remove the mylar, and save it for another time.  If I am doing rights and lefts, I can simply flop the mylar over.  Then I use whatever carving and stamping tools for the leaves, stems, and whatever background stamping I want done. 

That may not be the "right" way, but that's the way I do it.  Hope this helps.

[Ace Lungger]

MW,  No problem on long sentence, I hope that you guys can put up with my bad spelling. if i had to make ever word spelled right I would have to use a dictionary and it would take me all day to make a post!
 MW, I thank you for they way you replied, not to get to fancy at the start, and work your way up I don't know what I would due with out you pards!
  Trailrider I also thank you for you suggestion, I  think I am going to start carving a set of spur straps, and going to use some dowel rod and some broken scewdivers to make me some modeling tools, and for this simple job I should get by okay!

Thanks a bunck to all!
ACE

[knucklehead]

how to design a pattern for the holster im about to do?

good question. use whatever works for you. I dont have the fancy computer software and dont have the knowhow to use that software.

If I decide to carve the holster instead of stamping it, I grab butcher paper to make my design. once i have the final holster shap figured out, i draw several copies of the holster shape. then i grab my books and start looking at different styles of tooling ideas.
for example oak leaves. i grab the oak leaves book from leatherfactory, and the ale stolman oak leaves pattern book.
then i just trace oak leaves from both books till i have a design that looks good. butcher paper is semi transparent that i can see the pattern in book through the paper.

it took me 2 weeks to finalize my ruger old army holster pattern. everytime i looked at the pattern it just did not flow right to me.
i got fed up one nite and tossed out all my tracings and started completely from the start. that nite it just clicked and i had the pattern withen 30 mins.
i saved that pattern for when i make my crossdraw i can match the first holster.

for stamping a holster i decide if i want a simple border stamp design or a baskett design with a border.
either style i will use my wing dividers to scribe a light line about 3/4 to 7/8 in from the edge of the holster. i only scribe the outside 3 edges of the holster main body area. i dont scribe the bent over area cause you wont see that when holster is in use.
i will scribe a short line at top and botton past the folded area so i know where to finish off my stamping.
if someone wants the skirt to match main body of holster then i just do a border stamp same measurement from edge as the main body. but dont worry about stamping a border on the folded area of the skirt(area that becomes the belt loop) noone is gonna see that, so yo dont have to stamp in that area.


the picture is of the holster that took me 2 weeks to design. its for my ruger old army 7' barrell.

[knucklehead]

this picture is a example of a pouch that i designed with just a border stamp and one 3-d stamp.

I used the wing dividers to set my border line to where it looked right to me. I then just stamped the border over the scribed line to keep it straight. then i just set the 3-d stamp on the leather and moved it around till it looked centered in the area that i wanted and whacked it with the hammer.

then i chose to use a snap to fasten the flap closed.

this was a easy one to stamp for me.

[outrider]

Knucklehead,

Great looking holster.

Trailrider...is there a right way and a wrong way to lay something out...what ever works for you (and from what I have seen it does) is the correct way of doing it...By the way I do it the same way you do 

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy Pards,

This a great topic. Lots of good ideas and suggestions.

I use methods learned from Al Stohlman's book and Chuck Burrow's DVD to develop the pattern and overall design of the holster. All of my holsters are designed and wet-molded for a specific gun. I usually get a pretty good fit of the gun to the holster. My edges and finishing of the leather are starting to come around thanks to the help received on this forum.

As I have not yet learned how to tool, my holsters just have border stamping. I usually jump right in and start the stamping without doing a lot of planning. Sometimes I get in trouble. This topic has opened my eyes a bit regarding the planning of the decoration of the item. I'm going to have make a serious effort to put a little more thought into the planning and layout of my stamping. Someday I am going to learn how to tool.

[knucklehead]

Johnny McCrae,

sometimes you dont have to put a lot of thought into the design.
some days i can start on a holster and the design just seams to flow right out of my brain and onto paper very easy. I can get the holster finished except for assembly that same day.
I will let the dye setup overnite before i sew the holster together.
I know that Chuck Burrow's dvds show dying leather after you sew it together. but i dye holster before i sew it.
usually i do it this way cause i use the tandy antique dyes. using antique dyes is like staining wood brush on heavy wipe off excess. then use a damp sponge to take more dye off if desired. therefore sewing after dying is easier for me.

Ace Lungger,
what everyone hear is saying is right. there is no right way to design your holster design.
design it the way that works for you.

and to get some ideas in designing holsters look up hidecrafter online. they have some great videos on tooling, stamping, coloring leather. dont shy away from the titles if it doesn't have holster in it. the videos will help you  learn how to tool other styles and you will be able to adapt it to holster making.

the videos have helped me out alot. in fact i still look at them from time to time when there is nothing on tv and i dont have any motavation to tool anything. the videos actually get me motavated to do some leatherworking.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Nice work, knucklehead. I like your oak leaves. I've done both the rounded and pointed leaves but the rounded ones always look better to me. I usually make smaller leaves than you did. I like that effect and may have to try larger ones next time. Thanks for the pics.

I agree, Johnny, this is a great thread full of good information. Keep it coming, pards.

[HorsePen Henry]

Here's one I'm not done with yet but shows how I lay out a design for stamping. This one is a pattern I got from Chuck Burrows called the "Tejano". I like it because it's a Oklahoma and Texas regional pattern from the late 1870's to 1880's. The stamp is a new one for me and gave me some trouble but I think it turned out alright for a half blind Okie. I ain't sure how I want to finish it yet but am leanin' towards just a olive oil finish and some suntannin'. I like the golden color from that treatment. I still have to sew in the toe plug. This first picture is to show Ace that sometimes when ya screw up you can just keep on a goin'. I didn't get the stamping lined up just right on this new stamp but kept after it anyway.



Here is the way it turned out after it was assembled:



Ace, I always strive to make them perfect but it is a sure thing I'll never make a perfect anything. When ya screw up just keep on a keepin' on and it'll turn out alright when ya look at the whole picture and remember to try ta do better next time.



Ace, I hope this helps ya some,

X Horse Pen

[Johnny McCrae]

Howdy Knuck,
Many thanks for your input. I also dye first, then assemble and sew afterwards. I just got used to doing it that way.

Howdy Horsepen,
That holster is a work of art! 

Ace, I always strive to make them perfect but it is a sure thing I'll never make a perfect anything.

Thats pretty close to perfection in my eyes!

[Ace Lungger]

Knucklehead,  I love that holster!!! And many thanks for the input, it's great to have a lot of you Pards talking and giving everyone a little something to work with!!! I love that Oak Leaf Patter!

Horsepen,  I don't think you screwed up, I think sometimes we see our own mistakes that no budy else would!!

Since I don't have a wing divider yet,9 but I seen that harbor freight has one cheap, next time my dad has to go get parts for my brothers shop, i am going to see if he will pick me up one, untill I can get a good one! If you make a lite mark with the tool that you use to trace your carving lay out (the one with the little ball on the end) will it show up ! That is a big problem for me when stamping a border, is getting it strait!! I also dye my holsters before I sew, that away if I want to off set the contrast with a differnt colored thread I can do that.

I was told by a person, not on this forum or any forum that I could make me some modeling tools useing dowel rod , ect. I did make 3 new stamps yesterday, but they where just copies out of a book so i didn't have to go buy them.
I was wondering if someone had the time to , take some close up with differnt angles of the most used modeling tools! That away I can try and make some, my wife is about to skin me alive if i don't quick buying tools.

 And i want to thank all you pards with all my heart  that have sent me tools!!

 Last Friday, the post man comes to the door with a square box that was pretty heavy, I didn't have anything coming in!! I had not ordering anything! But the box was heavy, when I open it up I could not believe my eyes, according to Tandy last cat. the Tools this person sent me would of cost $420.00 plus ship , I was in total schock!! This group of Pards never sices to amaze me! Like I have told some of you before, this little town i live in, is all about being better than the Jones!!
 But I come hear and ask a few question and you all have done so much for me, if it hadn't been for you guys, laying in this stupid bed all winter I would of been in the nut house!!!

 But there is one thing that upset me! I cannot ever repay the Pards that have gave me tools and the knowledge and all the help!

Maybe I will when the big lottery, and i can take everyone to a big shoot or a trip somewhere or something

 This has been a super thread, and I have gain alot of knowledge!!!
 And I am very great full to all that have jumped in and gave there way of doing things!!

 ACE

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

[
Howdy HorsePen

      Pard, that is a beautiful holster, and i really like the design, you did a great job here , and like Ace said when we're not the ones doing the work , we don't always see fault that the maker sees, and like i say even if there is a screw up i like to think of it as adding charactor to the piece, after all we don't live in a perfect world anywho.

      Knucklehead

     Just caught your post , nice holster pard i like your tooling with the oak leaf pattern, and the use of the diamon spots, real schnazy.


     Hello Ace

     I'm happy to hear you got another surprise in the mail, thats great pard, it won't be no time before you have all the tools you'll need.



                                                                Will all you pards take care 


                                                                     tEN wOLVES 
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