More 45-60 Reloading Questions

[Llano County]

I broke down and bought a Lyman case trimming tool over the weekend. The universal chuck is quick and easy to use. I have given up on the tubing cutter and switched to a jeweler's saw. It makes quick work of rough cutting the .45-70 brass before trimming. The tubing cutter deformed the bass too much and I ruined about 5 cases. I also bought some Meister Bullets 300gr RNFP bullets. If I use the crimping groove on the bullet, my overall cartridge length (OAL) is 2.275 inches. The recommended OAL that I have gleaned from Chapparal's web site and others is 2.25 inches (which is the same OAL for the .45-75). The OAL from the Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions for .45-60 Winchester, pg. 353 is 2.15 inches. The 2.15 OAL seems awfully short and I wonder if it is a misprint. I used a 2.275 dummy round to cycle through the action and it functioned just fine. No hang ups.

How critical is the OAL if it functions in the rifle? It seems that the longer cartridge will place the nose of the bullet closer to the rifling and would help improve accuracy since it has less chamber length to jump across. It might help boost the chamber pressure enough so that the burnt powder does not blow back into the action and a lower weight of IMR4198 can be used. I think Hobie used 30gr of 4198 in his .45-75 loads to avoid the blow-back. I have loaded other calibres fired in bolt action rifles so that the bullet ogive touched the riflling and it improved the accuracy. I assume (don't say it!) that the same would hold true in a lever action if the cartridge was not too long to travel in the carrier and would eject properly. Wht are your thoughts?

I can't wait until Hornady starts offering LeverLution bullets for the .45-60! 

Llano

[Outlander]

I also bought some Meister Bullets 300gr RNFP bullets. If I use the crimping groove on the bullet, my overall cartridge length (OAL) is 2.275 inches. The recommended OAL that I have gleaned from Chapparal's web site and others is 2.25 inches (which is the same OAL for the .45-75). The OAL from the Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions for .45-60 Winchester, pg. 353 is 2.15 inches. The 2.15 OAL seems awfully short and I wonder if it is a misprint. I used a 2.275 dummy round to cycle through the action and it functioned just fine. No hang ups................Llano

Hy Llano
I think the most important is that the cartridge in the elevator worked well. Loading disorders are not good.
My cartridges length is currently 2,263 "
I have 3 bullets for selection, which I do here.
1st Rifle Bullet Caster 330grs 0,882 "long / 0,417 head
2nd Chaparral  330grs 0,838 long / 0,353 head
3rd Sierra # 8900 TMFK 0,778 round

On the sleeve in the picture, we can clearly see how much of space without powder. I fix the powder with a cardboard disc. I think that's important. regards Outlander

[Canyon]

Guten Tag Outlander,I wouldn't fire that cartridge with the card disk on the powder like the picture says.You are very likely to cause a bulge in the chamber.I never use anything between powder and bullet in my reduced loads.It is always better to fill the case right up to the bullet with powder if possible like you do with black powder.I'm told Trailboss does this also the Vectan powder D20 is quite bulky.Hope you were just keeping the powder down for the photo with the card disk pard,wouldn't like you to put a ring in the chamber of your beatuful rifle.

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[Grizzly Adams]

Outlander, +1 on what Canyon has said.  Don't use a cardboard wad over the powder.   In addition to a damaged chamber, you could get a bore obstruction!

[Outlander]

Guten Tag Outlander,I wouldn't fire that cartridge with the card disk on the powder like the picture says.You are very likely to cause a bulge in the chamber.I never use anything between powder and bullet in my reduced loads.It is always better to fill the case right up to the bullet with powder if possible like you do with black powder.I'm told Trailboss does this also the Vectan powder D20 is quite bulky.Hope you were just keeping the powder down for the photo with the card disk pard,wouldn't like you to put a ring in the chamber of your beatuful rifle.

Hello Canyon & Grizzly Adams,
Thank you for the information. Am grateful for everything.

From my experience and those of many other shooters, it is not desirable, smokeless powder a large powder room. Invite a density of 85-100% will be achieved.
Smokeless powder when such a large powder room, it may be too diverse press.

I have Trail Boss, because I do a maximum refilling the cartridge will, but there is no data. 14grs I had tried. Without knowing what kind of pressure is created.

If you have data on Trail Boss Vectan  D20?
I would like to test it.
Outlander

[Linecutter]

Hi Outlander,
 I also load Trailboss powder in my Uberti '76 in 45-60. I use 11.5gr of Trailboss and a 300gr gas checked bullet which chronographs at approx. 1240 fps. Very mild and accurate.
Good shootin',
Linecutter

[Doc Sorebones]

Forget messing with Trail Boss powder, I use this all the time in my cowboy action loads  for pistol calibers butg the pressures are way too erratic to achieve high accuracy.Did this today. Doc.
Click on picture to enlarge.

[Jubal Wilson]

Doc,
Did you get a chance to chrono those loads?

[Doc Sorebones]

After 4 shots my chrono. malfunctioned,however those shots showed 1398 f.p.s. average. gonna do some chrono work real soon.Doc.

[Jubal Wilson]

Thanks Doc.  I just loaded up a batch using 26.2 gr of 5744 based on an article that Kirk Durston wrote about developing a load for an original 1876.  He got a velocity of 1301 fps with that load out of componants similar to what I use.  The accuracy of your rifle is so bad you definitely need to get rid of it.  Mine shoots really good too.  Its the butt at the end of the butt that makes it look bad.

This is a target shot using my H4198 load in my Cimarron/Uberti 1876 in 45-60 at 50 yards.  There always seems to be one that won't conform.


The older I get the harder it is to herd all them holes into one place.

[Doc Sorebones]

Yup I have about the finest shooting rifle i have loved to hate. After 15 years in Cowboy action shooting and still having a whale of a time,I am really tired of the too short and limited side-matches going-on.Perhaps we could get a lever-action/Western repeater game going  that gives us the opportunity to have more fun using these things.I have a safe overflowing with lever actions and have always enjoyed them more than any other configuration. Doc.

[Grizzly Adams]

Yup I have about the finest shooting rifle i have loved to hate. After 15 years in Cowboy action shooting and still having a whale of a time,I am really tired of the too short and limited side-matches going-on.Perhaps we could get a lever-action/Western repeater game going  that gives us the opportunity to have more fun using these things.I have a safe overflowing with lever actions and have always enjoyed them more than any other configuration. Doc.

Doc, I think they call that game Cowboy Silhouette!

I think we need a "Montie Walsh" catagory (NO! NOT another they screamed! ) so folks can use the 1876 and 1886, and those big fish rifles as main match guns.  Kinda like we  did with Plainsman during the first Smoke in the Valley Shoot at Founders Ranch.  Plainsman was treated as a main match catagory and not a side match only.

The issue is, of course, the targets.  You have to have moderate loadings as longer distances with AP steel!

[Jubal Wilson]

I was into CAS a number of years ago but got fed up with some of the people I was shooting with.  Most of the gang were salt of the earth but there were a few that ruined it for some of us.  I got involved in BPCR shooting and really enjoy that and the people involved.  Many of that group also shoot Cowboy Silhouette where we shoot tubular magazine rifles and some shoot single shot.  In the 200 meter match you can shoot anything and we also have a pistol cartridge match where a smaller set of silhouettes are set up closer.  I use to shoot the 200 meter match with my 1873 in 44 WCF but now that I have a manly 1876 I shoot it with that.  Do they have anything like these matches where you are?

[Canyon]

Hi Outlander,I know too much air space in these large cartridges is not the best but I still think a filler is not needed.D20 was available over here in New Zealand quite cheaply a few years ago and I layed in a good supply because I found it had the same burning rate as DuPont 7625 and was quite accurate in 44Mag and 45 Colt cartridges even went great in reduced loads in my 8mm Mauser and 8mmx56R straight pull.But I don't have any data for any of the 76 calibers using D20.It is a bit fast for that size cartridge and the 76 Winchesters.Better to use 4198 or 5744 or ADI 2207 with the pressure peaks futher down the barrel.Hope this helps.Adios

[Doc Sorebones]

Kia-ora Canyon,which part of Godzone ya' in, I'm from Kaikohe but am spending a little time on the north part of the planet.You got an 1876? Ka Kite' ,Doc.

[Outlander]

Hi Outlander,I know too much air space in these large cartridges is not the best but I still think a filler is not needed.D20 was available over here in New Zealand quite cheaply a few years ago and I layed in a good supply because I found it had the same burning rate as DuPont 7625 and was quite accurate in 44Mag and 45 Colt cartridges even went great in reduced loads in my 8mm Mauser and 8mmx56R straight pull.But I don't have any data for any of the 76 calibers using D20.It is a bit fast for that size cartridge and the 76 Winchesters.Better to use 4198 or 5744 or ADI 2207 with the pressure peaks futher down the barrel.Hope this helps.Adios

 Hy Ganyon, Grateful for the tip's, 
maybe I try too black powder. If there are no mass merchandise is here in germany nobody was with the cartridge. It remains a exote. Unfortunately, because you have to ask.

Greetings from Germany

[Canyon]

Hi Doc,I'm just up the road in Kaitaia.Haven't got a 76 yet but waiting on Neil to get them in next month.We shoot up at the forrest at our pistol club.When I spotted a 76 at the NZ CAS champs in Wanganui I just knew I had to put my name on one.Ever get that feeling?

[Doc Sorebones]

Yup ,I was one of the original pistol shooters in Kaikohe.Now in North-west Arkansas for a bit and off to a CAS match this morning.Got a 100 yard off-hand side match planned for the 1876.Neil Hayes is a good buddy of mine,was at the first five FWASSA matches in Carterton.Make sure you get a '76  made by Uberti .Even thought this Chaparral/Armi-San-Marco shoots well now, I would not have had to do any more than unwrap and shoot with the Uberti( I got one recently).But I had to completely re-build the Chaparral(crapparal!).
Planning a trip  over later in the year,might see 'ya.Kia-Ora   Doc
P.S. how many N.Z. dollars for a '76 ?

[Canyon]

Hi Doc,Thats a coincidence I was one of the founding members of our pistol club up here too.No prices on the 76 yet I presume about NZ$2000 or US$1600.Remember Rob Scott hes in our club now building his house in Ahipara.He was in the Kaikohe club for quite a while.Wish I had the means to visit the States for a shoot.All the best.