Uberti Surprise

[Bobby Twoboar]

I've posted this elsewhere but thought I'd post it here as well.

I’ve seen more than several posts since I’ve been on these forums that address the relative quality of Pietta vs. Uberti products and specifically, their competing 1858 Remingtons. I thought I’d add my latest experience to the mix.

I have three .44 Cal. 1858 Remingtons:

The first was imported by Lyman and I bought it new from Gander Mountain back in the 1970’s. Although I’ve not been able to establish who the actual manufacturer was, since the Lyman name is the only name on the piece itself and Lyman doesn’t import these anymore, the current staff at Lyman tells me it was “probably” made by Armi San Marcos. A while back, I started a thread (purely out of curiosity) in an attempt to identify the maker of this piece and although I got a lot of helpful guidance from the other “darksiders” out there, I could not positively do so and have decided to go with what I got from Lyman and rack it up (with some reservations) as a product of Armi San Marcos.

The second is a current generation Pietta bought new from Bass Pro, in July of 2004..

The third is a current generation Uberti bought new from Midway, USA, in August of 2004.

The only one of the three I’ve fired so far is the Lyman (and that’s been over the years). I’ve got no complaints. It goes “boom” every time I want it to, and actually (usually) hits what I’m aiming at.

I haven’t been able to fire the Pietta or Uberti since I bought them but in anticipation of an attempt to shoot them next season if not sooner, I decided to rid them of all their petroleum-based factory lube (if  that's what it is) and introduce them to something a bit more “BP friendly”.

I first did the Pietta and noticed nothing glaringly unusual as far as its innards were concerned. (I realize both of these will probably require some fine-tuning but that wasn’t my intent at the time.)

That was a while back. Tonight, I did the Uberti. Lo and behold, you know the little hammer roller that’s on the rear of the 1858 hammer that you have to be careful to keep the end of the mainspring under when putting everything back together? Well, the Uberti didn’t have one!     No hammer roller - and no hammer roller pin.    Just two holes. 

My curiosity piqued now, I went back and tore the Pietta down again, although I was sure I would’ve noticed while working on it, if the same problem existed that was present in the Uberti. OK, the Pietta has the roller in place. However, it doesn’t roll!   It’s frozen/like welded, in place. 

Really on a roll now (pardon the pun)     I then went back to my good ol’ 1970’s Lyman and tore that down for the umpteenth time. The roller was there (I knew that!) and IT ROLLS!   

Friday (day after Thanksgiving) is probably shot. But I’ve got the weekend to go back to the paperwork and find out who to call.     Ghost Busters.

Last but not least and just as an “aside,” since I had them all out and on the bench at one time, I decided to compare their weights. Using a Pelouze Postal Scale, they weighed out as follows:

Lyman Import = 2 lb., 7 oz.
Uberti = 2 lb., 10 oz.
Pietta = 2 lb., 12 oz.

For whatever that’s worth.

[Scattered Thumbs]

Howdy

To add to the confusion 

My Uberti 1858 (which is actually a model 1863 like all the other clones available) has the roller in the hammer and it's fully funtional.

Now about the Piettas, you have to bear in mind that Pietta as two levels of 1858 models. The standard one and the "the luxe" or "shooters" model (which costs almost the double of the standard model).

Main difference between these two Piettas is that the shooters model has a progressive twist rifling as the originals had (and it's marked so in the top of the barrel near the frame with the 1858 patent's date), the action comes factory customized with an excellent 3 pound trigger release, the front post sight is generally mounted on a dovetail in the barrel and can be drifted for windage (I understand that not all "shooters" models come with this feature) and last the trigger guard is nickel plated brass instead of plain brass.

 

[REELFOOT REGULATOR]

I once owned a pieta that the late Tom Ball accurized for me(Tom was known as the foremost expert on smithing cap & balls) stated to me in the mid 1990s that in his opinion the pieta replica was the highest quality

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[Bobby Twoboar]

Thumbs,

Thanks.

My Pietta is the "standard."  Fixed front sight and no markings on the top "flat" of the barrel.

[Sagebrush Bill]

Your post got me curious about my old 1858 Remington, 1970s vintage, so I got it out to look at it. Mine "looks" identical to the ones in my 1973 Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. The barrel is a six sided hexagon. The left side flat says "BLACK POWDER ONLY-MADE IN ITALY-CALIBER 44". The lower left side barrel flat has a little square emblem with "KASSNAR" next to it. The left side barrel flat has two proofmarks. One looks like a small crest or coat of arms, and the other is the letter PN with a little curly thing above the letters. The lower left frame above the trigger has 3 small proofmarks, nearly identical to the ones on the Lyman 44 Cal. New Model Army on page 180 in my 1973 Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Two of them are identical to those on the barrel, except the PN has a better stamping and shows a tiny star in a circle above the letters. The third proofmark is a square with the letters AD enclosed in it. The serial number is on the bottom of the grip frame and is 029xxx. The blueing on the frame has taken on a dark purple cast which I think I read somewhere is related to the heat treating of the steel. Kassnar was apparently an importer of firearms. I believe that it is now K.B.I., Inc. and on their web page is a logo identical to the tiny square logo next to the word KASSNAR on my Remington. Here is a web page that shows foreign proofmarks.

https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf

Based upon this, I'd say that my Remington was proofed at the proof house of Gardone Val Trompia near Brescia, Italy. That really doesn't tell who the manufacturer was, but I would guess that it's the same as your Lyman. Here is a link to a page where you can post your question and you might get a good answer.

http://www.oldguns.net/submitfq.htm

I haven't taken mine down far enough to see the little roller in mine, if it has one, but I may do that today.
Sagebrush Bill
SASS Life Member 5269
Horseridge Pistoleros Life Member
NRA Life Member

[Bobby Twoboar]

Interesting sites, Bill.  Thanks.

I called Taylor's & Co. (The Importer for my Uberti which I bought from Midway, USA) yesterday morning and they're mailing me a hammer roller and it's pin.  No charge, of course.

[Bobby Twoboar]

Roller and pin arrived in U.S. Mail today.  Now we'll see how easy it fits/installs.

[Bobby Twoboar]

A little judicious work with some jeweler's files tonight and she's (the Uberti) whole and good to go.

Now, if I can just get the Pietta's roller freed-up and rolling, I'll be happy.