.50/70

[Tubac]

Any of you good folks shoota .50/70?
I've been foolin' around with a 45 grain 2F carbine load, and wonder about recoil with a full load.
Thanks,

Tubac

[Hell-Er High Water]

Tubac,

I've shooting 50-70 carbines for several years now and here is what I have come up with.  I've got both an original Trapdoor Springfield and a converted Remington Rolling Block in 50-70.  In both, full power loads are brutal for more than a few shots.

I have settled on the following for both of them.  It is an accurate and pleasant load to shoot.

3.1 CC of GOEX FFg, approx 43.0 gr by weight.

The Rapine 512-350-T bullet.  About 358 gr cast from wheel weights, sized 0.512" and lubed with SPG lube.
A tuft of cotton is set down against the powder and extends to the case mouth before the bullet is seated to fill the space between the powder and the bullet base.

Overall cartridge length with combination is 2.110".

This was developed to try and duplicate the 50-70 carbine load of 1870.

Like I mentioned above, it has worked out quite well.

HHW

[Tubac]

Hell-er-highwater,

Thanks for the info. I've been doin' pretty much the same thing.
What's the barrel length of your carbine?
The barrel length of my Sharps is 22".

Tubac

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[James Hunt]

Tubac: I suppose felt recoil is always subjective - and it depends what you are shooting the .50-70 in. I have a Shiloh with 28 inch heavy barrel with crescent butt plate, I also have an original conversion carbine. The Shiloh I could shoot all day, I find recoil very mild even shooting off the bench. The carbine generates a little more recoil. After 20 rds. your urge to shoot is pretty much satiated, but I have never had a sore shoulder after shooting it.

I use the same load in both - 62 g. of 2f Goex with a 450 grain bullet cast 20 - 1 lubed with SPG. The bullet is sized .510 for the Shiloh (which is what Shiloh recommends) and .515 for the conversion carbine. In the Shiloh the round is pretty much a tack driver at 100 yds. The conversion carbine has a very nice bore, and keeps all shots pretty much on a pie plate at 100 yds, not bad considering the sights which my eyes have trouble seeing and the fact that at the lowest setting it still shoots 9 inches high.

The .50-70 is a very nice round and I use it to hunt mule deer in WY, I much prefer it over either my .45-70 (Shiloh, and original trapdoor rifle and carbine) or my .45 2 7/8 (Shiloh with heavy 32 inch barrel). Happy shooting

[geo]

i use a pyrodex 60 grain pellet in my original trap door. i have found that even with the smaller cast bullet i use (for my spencers) i cannot get any more powder than 60 gr. in the case. i prefer to under load the old rifle for safety's sake. with a rolling block you can load it up to original specs. recoil in the trapdoor is about the same as using a modern 12 guage shotgun. probably using a lighter bullet will reduce the recoil. good luck, geo.

[Hell-Er High Water]

Tubac,

The Remington Rolling Block has a 21" barrel.  This is a gun that was originally in 43 Egyptian that I cut the barrel to 21", relined it with a 50 caliber liner and chambered to 50-70.  No collector value lost on this one.  It is one of several in 43 Egyptians that I bought in the 1960's for $12.50 each.  All of them were well used and abused, but at least functional.  All of them have now been converted to one thing or another.

The Trapdoor Springfield has a 22" barrel.  It was cut down from a rifle, by someone else, not me.  For an original gun, what remains is in excellent shape, inside and out.  If the rest of the gun was in as good a shape as what is now the carbine, it is a shame that someone cut it down.

They are both fun guns to shoot and are quite accurate out to at least 100 yards.  I use them both to shoot in the SASS, Plainsman side match events.

HHW

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have been working up loads for a Swedish rolling block in 12.7 x 44R.  It is a sporter with a 33" barrel.  Fairly light, 'caus a that big hole down the middle!  It does have a wide military butt plate.

I use Starline .50-70 brass, shortened slightly, and the rim narrowed to fit.  Dies are regular Lyman.  Bullet is the 350 gr Lyman 515139, lubed with SPG.  (Not lubrisized, just rubbed the lube into the grooves by hand.)

First test, 70 gr. 2F Goex + card wads;  1300fps, good group @ 50x but low & to the left.  Sights are barleycorn, with a very fine "V" notch in both a standing leaf and a second fold-up leaf.

second test;  75 gr. 2F + a single card wad;  1350 fps.  Grouped 3" - 4" above poa @ 100x with the second leaf raised.  Group widened because I didn't clean between shots.  NOTE:  COTW3d says that the factory load is 75 gr of 1F with a 350 gr. bullet

third test;  80 gr. 2F without wads.  1430 fps. cleaned between shots.  grouped better, but lower than before.  This time recoil from the bench started to smart, even with the wide buttplate, and hand-held solidly back into the shoulder. 

I am loading with a view to shooting a moose with this old girl made in 1870.  Next I will drop back to 75 gr. of 2F Goex and try to refine both the load, and myself.  I reply here as the 12.7 x 44R seems to be the direct cousin of the .50-70, both being derived (My opinion) from the .50-70 rimfire.