-AUTHENTIC-Chuck Wagon Cooking at End of Trail

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

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Now I'm no expert on the subject but I just re-read an article in my Nov/Dec issue of SHOOT magazine written by Mississippi Marshall. It is a short article about this couple that travels from event to event cooking on/in a period correct chuck wagon with period correct implements.

No plastic containers, forks, spoons, mixing utensils etc; The couples names are Bob and Velma Lawrence from Collbran Colorado. They have won many awards for their primitive cooking skills.

Their chuck wagon is an original freight wagon purchased about 16 years ago, that Bob restored and turned into a period correct chuck wagon. Most of the chuck wagons used on cattle drives started out as some other type of wagon such as the freighters.

Wouldn't be great if we had something like that here in NCOWS? Just so happens that this was at SASS's End of Trail. Now I'm talking about doing it the right way with all correct implements as these folks co.

Don't know what they charge to bring their operation to an event, but it might be worth looking into. If you have that issue of SHOOT take a look at the article.

Bill

[Grizzle Bear]

We have Bob and Glynda Thoms that bring their chuckwagon to some of our events and feed the group.  Their wagon is excellent, and furnished correctly.  We are trying to help them acquire enough proper plates, utensil, etc, top get away from any modern items.  You'll see them at the Two-Gun Shoot.

Grizzle Bear

P.S. They are NCOWS members.

 

[Delmonico]

An idea that will help on the period eatin' irons, with my portable camp I expect those who want to eat with proper eatin' irons to provide them themselves and I provide the wrek pans with hot water, soap and rinse water and you do yer own.  With up to 75-100 at times it is a lot of extra to haul the plates and stuff for that many.  Would love a proper chuckwagon, but out of my budjet right now, besides the wagon I would need a good trailer and a much better pick-up than my F-150 with the in-line 6.

But the everyone carry their own plates and stuff will make it easy, heck everyone has them for camp use anyway, don't they?

[Black River Smith]

That sounds like a great idea. It would be interesting to have someone present that knows how to do it correct and has been recognized for that fact. That would be something NCOWS's people would appreciate. I like that they are presenting a proper old way's image .

We should try to invite them or introduce them to our group.  We need people like this within NCOWS, as members.


PS.  At the Ackley Nationals, Kayleen has never let us go hungry.

[Major Matt Lewis]

Bill,

Another vote of confidence in Bob and Linda Thoms.  They had set up for Griz, for me at the GAF Shoots and The Powder Creek Cowboys, my local SASS club.  They do awesome work....

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Another vote of confidence in Bob and Linda Thoms.  They had set up for Griz, for me at the GAF Shoots and The Powder Creek Cowboys, my local SASS club.  They do awesome work..

Matt,
I'm sure there are more then one or two of these individuals that do this sort of thing on a regular basis and probably make a good living at it especially if they go to the bigger events. I met the Thoms last year at the KVC shoot and they are awesome people that seem to like what they do.

The whole point in posting this was to show there are those like the Lawrence's that do it the right way and just don't talk about it. One point we seemed to have passed over in the post is, they have won numerous awards for their primitive cooking skills and the fact that they don't use any modern utensils to cook in....I think that is really quite special in this day and age.

I agree with Delmonico in that you should furnish your own period correct eating utensils... It's a sure bet, that the Lawrence's don't furnish anything but the food too. I wish I had the money to buy one of those wagons.

OCB

[Delmonico]

One other problem with doing things like this is what you run into with laws from state to state.  I get by when I go out because I never charge for a meal, but have my expenses paod by someone who needs a group of folks fed or I cook for a group of friends who give me a "free will donation" to cover my expenses.  If I "charge" for a meal and open more to the general public, I am then subject to a ot of different laws.  In Nebraska, if you do this you can kiss any kind of true PC out the window.  This varies from state to state, I have customers that set up chuckwagons in public places, cook everything PC to the point of seving the public and then the paper plates come out and most often get stew, corn bread and cobbler for about $20 a plate.  Heck if I could do that I could afford the Chuck Wagon and better pick-up.  One must be very careful of state laws and local laws.  I did all the checking years ago for Nebraska and check brfore I go out of state, Iowa and Kasas are very similar in laws.

I used to try to have extra stuff for those who didn't have it, I never used any paper plates till a couple of years ago, just got to the point I could not haul everything I own all the time, today I carry them and hand them out to folks who don't have any proper ones of their own.

[St. George]

The first chuck wagon was an Army Ambulance - and was modified/designed by Charles Goodnight, though I'd imagine that pretty much anyone using a wagon on a drive already had an idea.

Goodnight sort of 'standardized' one - with a built-in kitchen cabinet and a fold-down work surface for the cook - made from the tailgate.

They became wildly popular then - and remain so, today, with a couple of outfits manufacturing them.

If I remember correctly - they're produced with Phillips-head screws, and so for authenticity's sake - require replacement - but that's about the only thing.

The 'Food Network' often features 'Chuck Wagon Cook-Offs' on Saturday programming that do a great job of explaining both the history as well as the serious competition that these folks enter into - being given all the identical ingredients, and creating a complete meal from them - using their skills and experience - 'plus' having their wagons judged for completeness and presentation.

'Must-See TV' it truly is - and mouth-watering, besides.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

One thing as a side note, not to throw cold water on any ideas is that a chuck wagon in it's purest context is made to feed around a dozen men, more once in a while in an emergency.  On round-ups involving several ranches the wagons were either in several places or in one place depending on terrain and the whims of the Round-up boss.

[Delmonico]

Here is one of the better sources I have been directed to, they will build to suit what you want.

http://www.hansenwheel.com/

[Texas Lawdog]

The period-correct utensils would consist of a cup, plate, and a knife, fork, and spoon?  Could a Mason Jar be used as a drinking glass?   This talk about Chuck Wagon has gotten me hungry!

[Delmonico]

  Could a Mason Jar be used as a drinking glass? 

Depends on how "Historical" you wanted to be, mason jars date to the era, in many colors inclding clear, although the blue-green would be the most common.  At a chuck-wagon you would just drink yer coffee or water out of a tin cup or possibly and enemal-ware one, although they will chip if hauled in a wagon over rough country.  The reason one would not see mason jars is they were a bit expensive and they break easily. 

But since most likely someone setting up like this would serve a bit more than coffee and water, one would make a good glass although a glass tubblers are also very period as well as the telescoping metal cups.

Of course anyone doing this would fry the steaks if they were on the menu and they would be very well done.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy folks,

If ya go check out Ottawa Creek Bill's NCOWS video, you will see Bob & Glynda Thom's chuck wagon set up at the KVC or GAF shoot.  They will be feeding us next weekend at the Two Gun Shoot!!  The saliva starts just thinking about it!

[James Hunt]

I suspect that there are those who do this for the fun of it and can feed a few, but the above point has been made that there are laws if it is to be done in a big way.

I actually have a friend who has a chuckwagon cooking business, he has a caterer's (sp) license and has handled over 500 folks at a time. He has done this for rodeo's and at least one movie star who happens to live in Michigan. I don't know anything about cooking, but for larger parties he calls me up and I attempt to add a bit of color while I serve up the beef. Last Sat. night he did a charity event, I was asked to help and we served about 260 folks not counting seconds (one guy came back 5 times - his pancreas must still be secreating those proteolytic enzymes). Obviously, he is cooking for these numbers in a little less than a period manner. The meat is cooked in a huge smoker for 15 hours before it is moved over the fire, but he has tons of cast iron where everything else is prepared over a wood fire, or when needed charcoal. NCOW"S members aside, I doubt that anyone could tell this is not a correct camp. Enamel (OK its blue) for parties under 75, paper plates for parties greater than that. Chuck wagon is circa 1880's. Mules and ponies for the kids come at an extra fee. How is he doing, he is booked every weekend thru September as we speak. Which brings us to cost.

All his suff can be transported with two trucks and two wagons if the critters don't attend (he has a second freight wagon and a mule team to haul the old timers around in before the meal). He will travel about anywhere, but trys to stay in Michigan or Northern Ohio. Cost is $300 to set up, and $12 per plate for brisk, roast beef, and chicken as a main dish - corn, sourdough biscuits, etc. If you want a cowboy band can be supplied. If you want he will stay the night and do breakfast for next to nothing the following day. Would he come to an NCOWS event? Probably, but we'd have to book him a year ahead and cover expenses.

OCB: you are right, this is a big hit. Our mounted shooting club has used him. The community I live near has a Fall Gather for both horse people and the community every fall at a local "ranch" where horse camping is allowed. It was sold out last year. We did a little mounted shooting demo and the local SASS guy's did a "reenactment" (no comment there - they thought they looked good). I could probably make money selling pictures of SASS guy's sitting on my horse in their outfit, I do it for nothing but they REALLY get into this. It is a big hit in the community of Hell, MI (yes there is Hell in MI), and I think a wagon would be a hit at an NCOWS event.

Plus I get a kick out of playing cowboy in front of the public and serving food, "Will that be birsk or roast beef there Bill?)

[Delmonico]

The penalty for stepping over the line as far as the laws can be costly.  Nebraska to get a catarers license to do dutch oven cooking requires that the cooking be done on a steel table at least 3 feet above the ground and the overns have to be scrubbed with soap and water after.  Other states have different laws, Oklalhoma and Texas seem to be very friendly.  I have a customer who told me about the time he got an inspection from the food insperctor down in Oklahoma, seems the inspector inserted a thermometer in a large pot on a tripod over the fiie that had beef stew being held to serve.  Guy got burned a bit, but he decided it was hot enough.  

In Nebraska for me with my portable cook camp and cooking no more than maybe 75-80 most times, the free will donation or someone covering my expenses works out fine.  I ain't gonna scrub  my ovens with soap and water for any one.

Added note, calls to the Health Depts in Kansas and Iowa got me similar information about their laws.

[Chili Wolf]

One thing as a side note, not to throw cold water on any ideas is that a chuck wagon in it's purest context is made to feed around a dozen men, more once in a while in an emergency.  On round-ups involving several ranches the wagons were either in several places or in one place depending on terrain and the whims of the Round-up boss.

Howdy Delmonico

quote>>If I remember correctly - they're produced with Phillips-head screws, and so for authenticity's sake - require replacement - but that's about the only thing.

QUESTION:  Were there screws used of "any type", or only nails of sort?
Thx

[Delmonico]

The original wagons of all types I have looked over uses carriage bolts and rods and nuts to hold them together.  I think screws and nails deduct points in compitition.  Perhaps Wishbone will stop by this thread next time he is on, he does the chuckwagon compitition.

[Wishbone]

I have experance cooking on 2 differnt Chuckwagons Crews. Authenic or Period Corect is thrown out the door when Judges leave. After Wagon judging is Done, I notice all kinds of 20th Century Stuff comes out. We have a wooden box called "The Illegals Box"  Measurement items as well as other stuff. The first time I watched "The World Championship Cookoff" at Redousia,NM they didnt even hide the fact they were using Wilton Alum Cake pans to cook Biscuits in.  PC is differnt to differnt people. Last May when I helped one crew we cooked enough food for 120 people. 2 wagons didnt show up because the weather was bad & we took up the slack. I made & cooked all the Apple & Peach cobblers  in Alum "Dutch Oven Liners" is what they call them. Placed inside of DO's. Dont get me wrong, It was fun & really had a GREAT Time but I get a little dissapointed when "Other" things come out of the Woodwork. If I have the chance to do it again I jump on it in a New York minute. I hope to have my own wagon reddy to compete within the next 5 years. Heart Attack & Hospital Bills have set Me bach a couple of years.  I need to buy about 10 lbs tble salt and learn to measure everything in Palm of hand like Justin Wilson. The Official web site for THe American Chuck Wagon Assco. is www.chuckwagon.org   Wishbone-Ks   

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Wishbone,
Thanks for the link to the web site...a lot of good info is there.

Bill

[Delmonico]

If we can connect sometime Wishbone, I can help you with those measurements.  I'll be at Rock Creek Station first weekend in June and will do the Hollenburg KS Pony Express Station again the last Sunday in Aug.  Come to either if you can.  When you get the wagon ready, I'd be glad to come along and help, as you know my speacality is yeast breads of all types.

[Delmonico]

Yah, but I can find those by the hundreds, folks who can do beyond a stew and a cobbler in a Dutch Oven are harder to find.

[Wishbone]

Taste Testers are always welcome at my campfire. Wishbone-Ks

[Wishbone]

Last May I was talking to a Couple of Chuck Wagon Owners about what price to pay for a wagon. Got several answers but one Gal said her Amish Friends charge about $250.00 each for new Wheels so use that as your base. I found a beatiful wagon to convert into a Chuck Wagon & the Fellow wants $3000.00. I heard he paid $800.00 for it. I offered $1500.00 but its still sitting in his barn. He bought it for the "Original" Seat. Makes a big differance in points if its Orignal or rebuilt. The Cowboy Hall of Fame in Oklahoma City, each Memorial Weekend invites some of the Finest Chuck Wagon Crews to do Cooking Demos all weekend long. Several World Champs thier. I hoping to make it there this year. If youre near & appreciate Dutch Oven Cooking You should check it out.   Heres the web site.  http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/e_wago.html   Happy Trails, Wishbone

[James Hunt]

The fella who I know and occasionally serve food for got started in the business for $7000. Got the wagon (which he had to convert to a chuck wagon) and a team of mules (came with automatic transmission, they were something). He bought a second wagon for about $1000 just to haul guests around in. The wagons are freight wagons and date from the late 1880's. He sold his Harley to buy that first wagon and mules and say's he has never regretted it. He is booked to cook every weekend thru September.