Info on Original Sharps I Just Acquired

[Blackpowder Burn]

Trailrider,

I'm interested in one of the slings.  Give me a PM with the details.

James,

Perhaps there is a little misunderstanding.  I meant a 0.515 bullet sizing die for a lube/sizer.  At any rate, I have some 0.510 bullets and will have my 0.515 bullets in a few days.  I can compare them side-by-side and see if there is a difference in performance.

[James Hunt]

Early loading tools supplied by the Sharps company for an additional cost. The bullet seater was for gg only, pp bullets were merely hand pressed into the case. Note the pick for removing primers and the wad seater. By the way I don't seat a wad with my .50 gg bullet - again I can't tell the difference in either my carbine or Shiloh at 100 yards. Of course with paper patch you must use a grease cookie, the molds for making such and the die for cutting paper wads are seen below. Images from Sellers.



The image below is of a reloading set that was supposedly supplied by the government for reloading the .50 cartridge for surplus rifles and carbines (sharps conversion carbine) supplied to gvt employees after the cartridge ceased being used by the military. The story is a little shaky but it is the provenance that went with this kit.



Both are a bit short of what we use today. And again, commercial hunters were hitting buffalo out to 600 yards while the guy's back east were on the paper at 1000 yards.

[Trailrider]

Early loading tools supplied by the Sharps company for an additional cost. The bullet seater was for gg only, pp bullets were merely hand pressed into the case. Note the pick for removing primers and the wad seater. By the way I don't seat a wad with my .50 gg bullet - again I can't tell the difference in either my carbine or Shiloh at 100 yards. Of course with paper patch you must use a grease cookie, the molds for making such and the die for cutting paper wads are seen below. Images from Sellers.

[Image deleted from Trailrider's reply to save bandwidth.]

The image below is of a reloading set that was supposedly supplied by the government for reloading the .50 cartridge for surplus rifles and carbines (sharps conversion carbine) supplied to gvt employees after the cartridge ceased being used by the military. The story is a little shaky but it is the provenance that went with this kit.

Both are a bit short of what we use today. And again, commercial hunters were hitting buffalo out to 600 yards while the guy's back east were on the paper at 1000 yards.

Howdy, Pards,
I'm not sure about this equipment being used by QM Dept. employees with their .50-70 rifles (Springfield M1868 mostly, for those employed by Infantry units, Sharps M1869 Conversions for those working for the Cavalry).  Here's why:  In 1876, which is when the last Ordnance Returns that can be found in the National Archives records were reported, there were about 50,000 rounds of .50-70 Gov't. ammo at Sidney Barracks, NE, alone, plus the 5 Sharps Carbines I mentioned in previous posts.  The problem with the theory of utilizing these tools for reloading Government .50-70 ammo is that it was all inside-primed, copper-cased.  Yes, I've heard the stories (probably true...if you are desparate enough) about the Indians reloading fired cartridges.  But, most likely, these were commercial brass ammo, which was being manufactured after 1873.  Most of the commercial ammo used Berdan primers, which use a pair of flash holes in the case, plus a built-in anvil, also part of the case.  Decapping these required a special tool, or a pick.  Of course, never say, "Never!", but I suspect that by the time they ran out of the issue .50-70 ammo, the citizen employees would have acquired some other "artillery".

Your Pard,

[James Hunt]

Relevant to the second image - agreed. The associated provenance may have been apocryphal and meant to juice up the price of the item - however it is an interesting set of items.

One caveat is that while the military had thousands of rounds of internally primed cartridges commercial hunters did not like the military cartridge, would this have extended to gvt. hunters, teamsters, scouts? (Historical comments from commercial hunters who were given cartridges by the military indicates they often pulled the bullet, melted the lead and sold the powder - Sellers, Cook and other sources). Subsequently and as you point out commercially produced .50 gvt were available and used by hunters - would the kit have been associated with them?

I can not identify all of the elements in that kit, I have to guess on some. It is clearly beyond the original reloading equipment sold by the Sharps Co. Any guesses would be appreciated although I guess that is beyond the point of this thread.

[Trailrider]

Relevant to the second image - agreed. The associated provenance may have been apocryphal and meant to juice up the price of the item - however it is an interesting set of items.

One caveat is that while the military had thousands of rounds of internally primed cartridges commercial hunters did not like the military cartridge, would this have extended to gvt. hunters, teamsters, scouts? (Historical comments from commercial hunters who were given cartridges by the military indicates they often pulled the bullet, melted the lead and sold the powder - Sellers, Cook and other sources). Subsequently and as you point out commercially produced .50 gvt were available and used by hunters - would the kit have been associated with them?

I can not identify all of the elements in that kit, I have to guess on some. It is clearly beyond the original reloading equipment sold by the Sharps Co. Any guesses would be appreciated although I guess that is beyond the point of this thread.

Agreed! As a matter of fact, in a novel I've been trying to write for years now (as a retired aerospace engineer, my fiction keeps coming out like a technical paper! ), I had the young teamster (a fictionalized character, but based loosely on the young teamster that actuall appears to have used the Sharps carbine I posted) buy some commercial .50-70 ammo because he didn't trust the issued stuff not to jam his carbine in a firefight. He does this on the advise of the chief packer for Gen. Crook!  (Someday I may actually complete the novel...)