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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  BROW (Moderator: Delmonico)  |  Topic: IAB Sharps 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: IAB Sharps  (Read 32880 times)
cpt dan blodgett
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« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2011, 04:15:51 pm »

I remember Miss Woods ... fondly, I might add ...

 Wink


Is I recall we were able to make a quite detailed assesment of the quality of the "goods"
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« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2011, 04:28:28 pm »

Well Ranch 13,
That being said, if someone can advise me as to how to determine when my IAB Sharps rifle was made, I would be happy to share that info. And if we can make that determination, we should determing when all the problem rifles were made and see if a time line developes. This would be a useful tool for anybody who might consider buying a used IAB Sharps in the future.
I will hopefully be at the range this weekend again, and will let you all know how it goes. I for one, still believe that the dream of the good usable "Cheapo Sharps Rifle" is a definate possibility, in my case, with the IAB which Isn't Always Broke. I'm rarely accused of being an optimist, but in this case I think my optimism will continue untill I have a reason to change it.

Proof date codes from another forum
http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php?topic=121.0
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2011, 05:47:50 pm »

Well I'll be! According to the code, BB, my IAB Sharps was made in 1992, which make's it a heck of a lot older than I would have thought. The guy I got it from said he had shot it, but I didn't get the impression he had it for a real long time. He's pretty much of a trader I know from my collector's club. We have a meeting scheduled next week, so I'll find out how long he owned it for, and if he knows anything else about it. Sure doesn't look like it's had many rounds through it, or seen much use of any kind. In fact it looks almost new; not quite, but almost. About 99.99% blue and case colors and a tiny ding on the stock. In fact, I've seen lots of brand new guns that had more finish wear than this.
Well, now that I know when mine was made. I would love to hear from other people who have had both good and bad IAB's and know when they were made. If everybody who has had a good one with no problems tells me that they were made around the same time, maybe I'm in luck!  Mean time I guess I'll have to keep on shootin' and see how long I can go without a breakage.
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2011, 06:13:56 pm »

Two sides to every story. Here are some posts from BPCR.NET:

I e-mailed IAB for information on their rifles expecting no reply. To my surprize, I recieved a prompt response from Mr. Mauro Pedretti in Italy. Mr. Pedretti informed me about the processes involved in the manufacture of his product, and after this, invited me to purchase one of his rifles, shoot it, and give him feed-back. He told me, he was confident I would be pleased with the quality of his Sharps. According to Mr. Pedretti, the barrels are broach rifled, lapped and polished, the finish is up to par or better than other Italian makers, and the parts are heat treated. Considering his reply to show class and profesionalism, I purchased one from Tri Star. IMO, fit and finish is up to par with Pedersoli. Rifling looks very well done, and has a twist of 1:18. Action feels very sturdy. Shot many boxes of ammo through it without any problems, and proved quite accurate at 100 yds. Let off after setting the trigger was very light. So far, I am very pleased, and I look forward to work up some BP loads for it.

I had an IAB 45-70 sharps business rifle until about a year ago, the rifle was quite accurate with smokeless loads out to 200 yards. Never had any problems with it. It had the 29" light round barrel. Sold it to buy a blackpowder shotgun for bird hunting

I have a TriStar (IAB) Sharps in 45-70 that I have about 1000 rounds through and find it quite accurate and well made with better than average fit and finish. I just wish that IAB made a pistol grip/shotgun butt stock for their gun as they would make an excellent entry level gun because the price is right for what you get. Just get a good set of sights.

There were some negative comments too, but no doubt some people have IAB's they are real happy with.  Are there other Sharps that have not yet been discussed which should be considered for good quality "Cheapo Sharps" status?
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« Reply #154 on: December 09, 2011, 01:35:38 pm »

My taylors (Armi Sports - Chiappa) appears to be pretty well done as far as fit and finish goes.  The jury is still out on its abillty to shoot.  As indicated above problems may well be related more to my eyes than the rifle.  Will probably end up spending more on the sights than I did for the rifle.  The rifle is not fancy but does look a whole lot more finished than a Baikal Shotgun or Makarov pistol, both of which look rough but shoot well.  My rifle was proofed in 2002 and has the older small firing pin.  Conventional wisdom on this site is that the small pins are prone to breakage.  Have not had a problem, but have only fired about 100 - 150 rounds.  Ordered a couple replacement pins along with an extactor from Taylors just in case (in stock and shipped quikly).  Taylors will drill out the firing pin hole to use the new larger firing pin for $10.  Will consider getting that done at a convienient time once I install the 3rd firing pin.

Others have claimed there are issues with springs and sears.  I have not ordered any of those parts.  Not sure I want to attempt to fiit a Sear.  I am pretty sure Ranch 13 would tell me how to do it.  He is very knowledgeable and quite helpful on this forum.

I finally got around to using a pencil to seat the bullets right at the rifling- not pressed into, then calipering to the base of bullet.  I now have COL for each of the bullets I have for both 45/70s.  May get in some range time over Christmas holidays.  Got a lyman tang sight "mounted".  Holes actually too close together but can just get screws in, seems solid.  Temp fix till get a decent soule.
At least I can see the front sight.  The barrel sights and my eyes really do not work to well.  Will knock out the rear sight from barrel to allow me to shoot at 100 and 200.
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #155 on: December 09, 2011, 09:35:43 pm »

I'll hopefully be getting in some range time tomarrow, and hope to put about 40 rounds downrange at 100 and 200 yards. I know my eyes aren't what they once were, and for myself I have always enjoyed some magnification and seeing the crosshairs on a target. I was really amazed at how expensive the soule tang sights could get, but when something is machined by true craftsman it has a value that is impossible to place. There just arent many people left who can do the kind of precision machining it takes to produce these sights. Buffalo Arms has a sight by Lee Shavers which costs a little over $200., and probably represents a good value, but from there they jump up in cost pretty fast. As I said, my personal preference is for glass, but even going the cheap way with that I have about $100. more into my scope setup than what I paid for the rifle.
Tomarrow will give me a better idea as to what my rifle can do, and what I can do with it. Just fooling around last week and sighting in I was able to make some pretty good (for me) groups at 50 yards. I had a 4 shot group about 1.5" with 2 shots and 2 shots touching each other. That was only 50 yards, but I think if I had taken a little more time I could have had a one hole group without too much problem. Now for myself, that's olympic quality shootin', 'cause I've never been all that good. So maybe gettin' old is a double edge sword......your eyes get worse, but your patience gets better. And it certainly seems like patience is one of the key ingredients of becoming a competent marksman. 
Well cpt dan, I hope you get some shootin' in before the holidays. Maybe you can pick out a sight you really like from the Buffalo Arms catalog and leave it in a prominent place with the sight circled in red. I know my wife wouldn't take the hint, but maybe things are different in your family.
My wife asked me if I had an electric blanket. I told her that the cat keeps me warm, but I like guns. I won't hold my breath for an addition to my small collection, but maybe I'll get a Lee Pocket Loader so I can save a little money off the cost of factory ammo!
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« Reply #156 on: December 10, 2011, 01:53:07 am »

Thinking sometime around april there will be either an MVA or Kelley on the rifle.  Sights have not got close enough to the top of the list to worry about till then.
Thankfully  I got the reloading stuff back in 94 for high power.  Even with the equipment 300 - 500 grain bullets $ add up pretty quickly.  good news is once I get it dialed in for 300 probably only need to shoot 10 rounds a month.

If I ever get seriously into BPCR shooting at paper or steel will probaby invest in one of the guns from montana. Until then think the Armi will do just fine.

Mamma already ordered a pancho from Western Wildlife Wonders to keep me warm on those 2 or 3 match days a year I might need it out here in sunny AZ.
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« Reply #157 on: December 10, 2011, 11:45:14 am »

Eh! Pancho!

Do you mean "poncho", or more appropriate for Arizona; "Serape" Huh

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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #158 on: December 10, 2011, 09:14:37 pm »

Be it a PonchO or a Sarape, I'd trade my left little finger to spend the rest of my days in Arizona. When I liveed there in the 70's and again for a year in the 80's there were no shortages of great places to shoot. That was where I learned that my Marlin 39M could hit rocks at 500 yards or more! All my happiest shooting was in Arizona and thats where I got my cowboy heart. Tried bull riding up at a place on South Mountain. They had $4. bulls, $5. bulls, and $6. bulls. Started out on a $4. bull named Charlie who was about as rough as a big friendly dog. I swear he liked to be ridden, and he wouldn't buck for love or money. They put everybody on Charlie for there first ride, just to see if they would really get on a bull. I think the most dangerous thing about riding Charlie was that he might lick you're face if you fell off of him. I graduated to $5. and $6. bulls and ended my rodeo career on my 7th ride on a $6. bull named "Dispose All". Didn't know you could break an arm that bad, but after 2 surgeries I had decided that my cowboying would be relegated to shooting and riding horses. I still have the steel plates I carried in my arm for more than 20 years, not to mention my memories of riding real bulls. Not that I would recomend it, but I gotta tell ya', you will never feel anything like you feel when you're sitting on a 1,500 pound bull waiting for that gate to open. Any by the way, I did ride ride em' out on my 6th and 7th ride. Thats actually harder than getting thrown, 'cause when you hear that bell ring you think "Well now what do I do?" and you have to figure it out pretty quick.
And remember....GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, BULLS DO!


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« Reply #159 on: December 14, 2011, 12:12:49 am »

A rodeo hand aint nuthin but a Cowboy with his brains kicked out.

Think bull riders make em look like geniuses

As I understand the terms a Sarape is a full blanket.  Poncho more on line with size of a saddle blanket with a hole for the head to go thru Ala Clint in Fist full of dollars.
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2011, 08:31:54 am »

Well I gotta admit, the smartest thing I did as a bull rider was to quit bein' a bull rider. I said it was exciting, but I never said it was a smart thing to do.
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #161 on: January 07, 2012, 06:32:06 pm »

RANGE REPORT 1/7/12 LONG ISLAND, NY
Well, this isn't normally the time of year you would want to be at an outdoor shooting range, but thanks to about the strangest Winter weather I have ever seen here, it was indeed a great day to be at the range. Sunny with the slightest breeze and almost 60 degrees this afternoon. The range was crowded with everybody who wanted to get some outdoor shooting in before Winter catches up with us.
Anyway, got to put another 50 rounds in my IAB Sharps with the Leatherman 30" scope. Both the rifle and the scope did just fine with the scope in the middle of my sighting in procedure. First time out I was at 50 yards just to get on paper. Today moving out to 100 yards I found that I still need to tweak it a little more, as my groups were about 4" to the right. Without bothering to adjust the scope I was able to get 4" groups on the bull by using a little Kentucky windage, just holding about 4" to the left. The scope seems to be holoding it's zero, and adjusting for elevation is no problem. The one thing I found with this scope that I think I'll just have to live with is the windage adjustment. You actually have to almost remove the elevation piece to access the lock screw for the windage. And it is a design flaw I don't think I will be able to overcome. The good news is that once I get the windage set right on, I should be able to lock it down and never have to bother with it again. I can still compensate for distance and bullet weight by adjusting the elevation with no problem. And if I have to compensate for actual wind conditions, I'll just have to do it the old fashond way, which is to say Kentucky windage, just like I did today.
As for the rifle, it functioned perfectly. Accurate, smooth, with no failures to fire or eject. No broken springs or firing pins. Look like I got one of the few IAB Sharps rifles that does the job. Of course, it could always break on the next shot. But if anybody wants to place any bets, I'll put up $100. that says I get to 1,000 rounds with a breakage. And no, you don't win if I have a failure to fire every once in a while. But the bet is that if something breaks on the rifle due to normal use, you win. If I hit 1,000 rounds without anything on the rifle breaking, I win. Unless there is someone local I can go shooting with at the Brookhaven Shooting Range, I guess we can't really make a bet. But I promise that if I have a breakage, I will share that info with you all.
So anyway, is this still a thread about the "CHEAPO SHARPS" club, and is anybody still interested?
Bony Notches!
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« Reply #162 on: January 07, 2012, 06:48:59 pm »

I enjoy your range reports on the IAB Sharps because I own one also, Mine is a 45-110 and I cant find a flaw on it so far. Although I did lose a lever retaining  ball and spring. You really have to watch that  as that little ball and spring will take flight if yu trop the carrier in the field to clean. Luckily VTI carries the parts and they are cheap so I bought two  of each. I think Ill keep an extra firing pin just in case also.
 I am particularly interested in your scope. I am considering a Malcolm scope but i wanted to talk to someone who had gone that route before I committed to buying and mounting one.
 I enjoy the tang sight but  my eyes are getting to the point that I think the scope would be easier plus I just like the look of the long scope.
 I have fired all my rounds but four and I have cleaned my brass now I have to reload my empties and buy some new brass as I only have 20 total right now, Plus I am looking to find a bullet mold and accessories. I have been shooting  Pyrodex because I could not find any Goex locally but I have ordered some and as soon as it and the new brass gets here I think I'll spring for the Malcolm.
 These maybe cheapo Sharps but they are a lot of fun plus I have a friend who owns three Shilo rifles and my rifles fit and finish I think are better overall plus he tells me that he has broken more than a few firing pins and always leeps a spare.
 So I think I'll stick with my el Cheapo for now and just enjoy it.
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« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2012, 04:49:54 am »

Fellas, this starts the New Year right!  IE 300, Bravo!  You're having fun, and that is the name of the game!
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2012, 04:40:30 pm »

Well Thanks as usual Steel Horse for the kind words! And Don, I'm real glad to hear about your IAB in 45-110. Did IAB make it in that caliber or did you start with a 45-70 and have it reamed to 45-110? I'll bet those loooong 45-110 cartridges get some attention at the range since they look a little like ICBM's! I would imagine that that additional powder capacity would be a big advantage when your hunting or shooting out at those real long distances. I have often wondered about how much additional recoil you get from those over the common 45-70's, but I guess if you have enough weight in the rifle it wouldn't be too bad. I'd love to hear some more about your rifle and it'specs. Barrel length, weight, double set triggers, ect.
Now I have to admit that I have never even seen a Montana Sharps in person, so I can't judge their quality of fit and finnish compared to mine. The only other Sharps that I have actually held was one of the Pedersoli rifles, and while it was a little nicer than my IAB in that department, it wasn't a whole lot nicer. Wood to metal was a little tighter, and some of the metal was a little finer in the polish department. My barrel has a kind of a frosted bead blast finish as opposed to a fine polish, but while that bothered me a little when I first got it, I now look at it as an advantage in that it probably won't show up minor dings and scratches as much as a finely polished barrel. Apples and oranges. The only other thing as far as metal finish goes is that when the block is up in battery, the sides of the block are finished pretty rough, with a verticle grinding pattern like it was finished on a pretty corse grit of paper like maybe an 80 or 120 grit, than left in the white. Would have looked nicer if they had gone to maybe a 220 grit or so. But after touching it up with some cold blue, it's hardley noticable, and since the sides don't seem to be bearing surfaces during the cycling of the action, it doesn't affect the smoothness of the action. Which by the way, is pretty smooth.
The only other thing I wasn't real happy with as far as the finish goes, was the wood finish that was on it when I got it. I think the Italian's seem to prefer wood to be a little glossier than I like. So I stripped it and rubbed in a couple of coats of linseed oil which gave it a more subdued warm look which I prefer.
Overall, I think these are well finished rifles. I've owned a lot of guns over the years, and although I'm not rich, I've had some nicely finished guns. But I would still have to say that this is nicer than anything else I've owned as far as new guns go. I did once own a Winchester Model 1907 .351 Semi Automatic rifle, and I always thought that if I had owned it when it was new, it probably would have been the most finely finished rifle I would have owned. It wasn't new when I got it, but it was in real nice condition, and you could just tell that it must have been a gem when it first left the factory. But if you go into a gun store and look at what's leaving the factories now, you will have to spend some big bucks to get the quality of fit and finish we have on our IAB's. By the way, I got my IAB Sharps used for $550. in close to new condition.
As far as the scope goes, some of my previous posts have outlined what I did to my mounts to get them much improved over what they were when I received them. The scope is fine as it comes, and it really does look cool! Good clear optics and probably as good as the original Malcolm's were. A lot of people suggest getting the mounts made by one of the American makers, and for serious competition, they may well be right. I'm still getting the hang of this stuff, but I can tell you that I did have to put some time and effort into getting my mounts to work as good as they do. On the other hand, it was a good education and let me get a lot more familiar with the way these mounts work. I basically look at these mounts as a pre-assembled kit. Take them apart, work on them, polish them, file them to get the components to fit together correctly, and maybe you will have something. Only time and use will tell how servicable they will be in the long run. But I wouldn't be supprized if I end up upgrading the mounts eventually. The only negative about the scope is the small size of the opening for your eye. You have to work at holding the correct position to get that sight picture. On the other hand, I have read that that same atribute pretty much eliminates parellex.
Well, as I said, the weather has been very mild for this time of the year in this part of the country. But maybe God will smile on us up here this year and allow us to skip a severe Winter this year. Otherwise, I guess it's time to try my hand at reloading until we get to the Spring. I'll keep my fingers crossed, and if it stays warm, I'll keep you all posted about my progress with my IAB Sharps. Did I mention that I love this rifle?
Bony Notches
PS - Does anybody know how big a deal it is to change from single to double set triggers? I have a single, but I would love to have my trigger break at a couple of ounces like the proverbial glass rod. If I could just swap out one trigger package for another, that would be great!
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #165 on: January 18, 2012, 07:45:39 pm »

Hi Everybody!
Hey Don, did you ever get your Sharps scoped? Like I said, with the scope I am able to get 2'-3" groups at 100 yards with a flyer here and there. And I've never been a very good shot. The scope setup cost me more than my rifle, but it really makes for a nice package. And I'm sure Sgt. John Ryan never regretted spending big money on his scoped Sharps. After all, he claimed that he fired both the first and last shot in the Battle of the Little Big Horn. He couldn't have done that without the scope!
But I was thinkin' about that and I realized that when I was a kid I mostly shot .22's, but when you pay a buck or two for every pull of the trigger, I guess you concentrate a little harder at putting holes where you aim. Seems like when I was a kid with my .22 in the desert, the goal was to see how fast I could make the sand kick up in the general vacinity of where I was aiming. If I happened to bounce a can every once in a while, well, that was fine too. Mainly I just wanted to make the sand splash, but at my age making groups is more satisfying.
Well now I'm entering the next phase of my love affair with my Sharps. I'm gonna' make my own ammo for it. I have 99 empties, and am waiting on another 135 loaded rounds that I just ordered.  On Gunbroker I got an auction for some older small name handloads that are packed in 15 round boxes, and I paid less than a buck each for them. I'll pop off a few and if their no good I'll pull them for components. I also got 3 boxes of HSM 45-70 405 gr. RNFP Cowboy Action for $20.20 a box, and I'll do the same with those. Either one at about a buck each seems to be a good bet for reloading if they don't shoot well. I also got 200 #1 Buffalo bullets from Missouri Bullet's which are 405 grain RNFP cast .459 diameter. These bullets get good reviews from users and and end up costing about .25 cents each delivered. I have about 3/4 can of FFG/RS Pyrodex and an almost full pack of Federal Large Rifle primers. So I've got the components to get started.
Tomarrow UPS is delivering my reloading equipment which consists of the LEE BREECH LOCK CHALLENGER PRESS KIT along with 45-70 dies including the extra crimp die and a few other accessories to round out the set. Now the only reloading I've ever done was some .38 Special with the old Lee Loader when I was a kid ( yeah, I popped a few primers in the living room) and than just a few months ago I handloaded some .45-70s with the Pyrodex I have. I used my drill press with a wood dowel to seat my primers and it worked great! I seated the bullets by hand and used some nail polish clear coat to seal and secure the bullets in the cases, and you know what? They went BOOM and hit the paper! I couldn't have used these rounds in a lever gun because the first rounds recoil would probably have pulled the bullets in the other rounds, but in a single shot trapdoor they worked just fine. Anyway, that's the extent of my reloading experience.
My lack of experience may be an advantage because from what I have read, it's usually people who have gotten used to other equipment that have trouble with the Lee stuff. So I bring no pre-conceived notions about how this equipment should be configured or work; my mind is a clean slate when it comes to reloading. And I'll be using a Lee reloading manual which I'm sure is geared toward people using Lee equipment. From what I have read, even though the .45-70 is a long round, it's also a streight sided round with no taper or bottleneck, so as long as I lube mu cases well and go slow, this press should do the job. If I feel anything hanging up, I'll open the press, remove the case, clean and relube, and try again. And in keeping with the topic of this post, the Lee qualifies as the Cheapo reloading system to go along with the Cheapo Sharps rifle. So hopefully I'll do some reloading this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes.
As always, suggestions are welcome. Just don't tell me to throw the Lee equipment in the lake.
BONY NOTCHES!
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« Reply #166 on: January 18, 2012, 08:39:55 pm »

IE300;  You are coming along Jes Fine!!  No I won't suggest you can the LEE stuff, but I might suggest you mail it to me collect Grin Grin

I love my LEE stuff.   
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IT AIN'T A BIG .50 - IT'S JUST A LITTLE 45-70


« Reply #167 on: January 19, 2012, 08:32:08 am »

Well that is encouraging Sir Charles!
Looks like we are finding more common ground as time goes on, and to show my appreciation for your encouragement I'm going to make this my shortest post ever!
Boneee Day-oo's!


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« Reply #168 on: January 19, 2012, 09:01:04 am »

Back again for a quick reloading question,
I didn't say it would be my only post, just my shortest. But I will make this one short as I can. The reason I got the crimp die along with my die set is because I have read that if possible you should seat your bullets in the case forward enough to almost engage the rifling in the barrel. My understanding is that you want to avoid having to "jump" any free space between the front end of the chamber and the begining of the rifling. If I understand correctly, that "jump" can cause 2 problems. First is that that free space can allow some hot combustion gasses to migrate around the front of the bullet and possibly cause some throat errosion. Second is that those gasses in conjunction with that free space can allow the bullet to yaw slightly before engaging the rifling, again causing throat erosion but also causing the bullet to deform when it engages the rifling unevenly.
This possibility makes sense to me as I visualize it in my mind's eye, but is it a genuine concern that I should try to avoid by customizing my reload to be a specific length to match my rifle's chamber? Assuming it is, how do I go about determining the optimum loaded length for my loads to match my chamber? Do I need to cast my chamber and get my dimension from the casting, or is there an easier way to measure my chamber? Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.


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« Reply #169 on: January 19, 2012, 11:00:59 am »

There are several ways.  The one I use is to take one of my bullets and slip it into the breach. Poke it with a pencil 'til it just sticks in the throat. Use a cleaning rod with a flat end and slide it in the muzzle until it just contacts the nose of the bullet you just stuck in the throat. Mark the rod with a pencil. Remove to bullet and close the breach. Slide the rod in to touch the breach face and mark the rod again.  The difference between the two marks is your OAL

From that you can easily figure seating depth so a powder load can be determined.

P.S;  Steel Horse Bailey just described the other common method of determining maximum OAL.  Shooting tests will find the ideal OAL for your ammo & rifle.
P.P.S; Capt Dan described the third way, and likely the simplest and quickest.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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« Reply #170 on: January 19, 2012, 11:03:56 am »

IE Howdy!

As I've stated befor, I'm NOT a BPCR reloading expert.  The chamber cast seems to me to be the best way to find out a LOT of information.  I believe that by seating the bullet so that it is just shy of touching the beginning of the rifling - say, .005" - .010" at the most, you'll minimize the bullet "jump" and it won't "free-bore."  I believe that some also advocate just touching the rifling, but I tend to think that might cause an unwanted pressure spike, so when I did my loading COL experiment, I ended up with about .010" from the rifling.  With all the other "issues" I've had I don't know if it really made a difference or not.  Factory smokeyless rounds shoot fine, just not BP so much.  I didn't have any Cerrosafe, so my method was simply slip-fitting a bullet in the neck and letting the rifling push the bullet into the case, then working from there.  As others have mentioned about some of the Italian rifles, especially the Armi Sports, my rifle might well accept a 45-90 round because of excess space!  I've never found a properly loaded-to-specs 45-90 to try, however - but ... maybe someday!  As I recommended to YOU, a chamber cast would tell the tale!
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« Reply #171 on: January 19, 2012, 12:31:48 pm »

Put bullet in chamber push against lands gently with pencil measure to base of bullet with caliper
That is A
Measure length of bullet that is B
A+B is overall length of cartridge or C
A-case length is seating depth
C-caselength how far bullet sticks out of vase
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« Reply #172 on: January 19, 2012, 12:49:16 pm »

Somewhere along the way u may want a neck sizing die
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« Reply #173 on: January 19, 2012, 08:01:12 pm »

Somewhere along the way u may want a neck sizing die


I believe he already has one.

I have and use one.  Except for my .223 & 30-06 Garand loads, I neck size ONLY.
(7.92 Mauser for my 2 K98 types and M1888, 30-06 for M1917, 45-70 for my Sharps, and 7.62X54R for my M91/30 & M44)

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"May Your Powder always be Dry and Black; Your Smoke always White; and Your Flames Always Light the Way to Eternal Shooting Fulfillment !"        

SEE MY PHOTOS: http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/m1a1mstrgn/
NCOWS #1919 for Life, SASS Life #27463, NRA Life, Honourable Master of the Black Arts, GAF#98, SBSS, WARTHOG, STORM, American Legion Post # 495
*and a few other organizations*
F.&A.M. - Wayne Guthrie Lodge #753 *** Hiram's Rangers #105
(former) US Army M1 & M1A1 Tank Master Gunner
AKA - Jeff Bailey  A Three-Percenter & Sheepdog

Take me out to the black, tell 'em I aint comin' back. Burn the land; boil the sea: you can't take the sky from me. Have no place I must be; since I found Serenity:  you can't take the sky from me.
by Joss Whedon 2002 - Firefly
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« Reply #174 on: January 19, 2012, 08:34:30 pm »

May have misse.   that I'm working up a smart phone today not full screen
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